Cinema Guzzo, a leading Quebec movie chain, is being sued for a rough search of some of its patrons (Guzzo searches has been the subject of some online discussion here, here, and here). La Presse reports that a Montreal woman is seeking $60,000 in damages for the way the theatre chain searched her bags. The woman's lawyer argues that there are less invasive ways to search for camcording equipment, such as x-ray detectors. Vincent Guzzo responds that such machines cost $70,000 each (though he also claims that the issue costs the theatre one million dollars annually) and that the theatre typically prefers to target its searches to males between 18 and 35 with backpacks. He adds that the theatre includes clear signage indicating that they reserve the right to search bags. Bill C-59, the new anti-camcording law, creates new penalties for camcording, but does not grant theatre owners any new rights to search patrons.
Quebec Movie Chain Sued Over “Abusive” Search
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They have no legal right to search you. They get around it by stating that by purchasing a ticket, you are consenting to a search before entering the theatre. I saw a sign to this effect the last time I was at my local cinema with my girlfriend. We both agreed if they tried to search us, we would get a refund of our tickets and leave. Everybody asked to be searched should do the same. Camcording is a non-issue; nobody downloads them when you can get DVD quality rips from preview screener discs. They’ll stop this crap when we stop allowing them to do it.
No they wont
Andrew, I wish I could believe you when you say that resistance would work, but it’s become clear to me that the government is far more likely to side with business interests than that of tax-payers. I can’t afford to lobby, and those that can have better access to the people I vote for than I do.
This type of search may not technically be allowed, but I’ll bet that any complaints to police would be met with either blank stares or hostility.
It is one more mighty nail in the coffin of theaters. Why put up with the potential of a privacy search when you can watch it from home, from a rented DVD. The prices are lower, the seating better, the lineups nonexistent, and potty breaks with the movie stopped for you!
They keep giving more reasons not to buy. That lowers their sales, which to them means theft is higher. So they increase the invasions, and I am fine with that as long as they don’t come to my living room.
Yes they will!
@Basil,
Andrew isn’t proposing to lobby, or complain to the police about the searches. What he proposes would work: Since it’s not a public space, they can require you to submit to a search in order to gain access, but they can’t force search you. If they want to search you, you say you’d rather leave and get a refund. If everybody does that, they’ll lose so much on ticket sales that they will do the lobbying for you!
Indeed, the best thing to do is just boycott cinemas and just stay at home. They don’t deserve our dollars as they don’t show movies right (focus issues, scratched prints), over priced food, no beer, sound that’s either too loud or too quiet, and adverts – yes, you get to pay to see adverts.
Whereas it’s reasonable to employ people to watch over the cinema with an infra-red camera to look out for camcording, it’s not reasonable to search peoples bags for cameras.
First Post
Big love to all my slashdot peeps!
Theatre Chains are a Dying Breed
With more and more of this, pretty soon people will stop going to theaters altogether. You can already see it. Only the big blockbuster films bring in the crowds anymore. I’m an avid theater goer, but I’m starting to go less and less because it’s really becoming inconvenient to go.
Now that they are searching people at random (in Cineplex theaters in Toronto) lineups to get into movies are sometimes insanely long and slow. The theaters still don’t have assigned seating, which means if I want to go to something good I have to go an hour early and be subjected to their non-stop string of advertisements. If they actually cared about customers, they would have implemented one feature in the last 10 years that customers are actually interested in.
Pretty soon the cost value of attending the theater just won’t be worth it. Why go sit with noisy people and waste an hour of your time waiting to pay $12.00 each just to get in the door, when you can buy the movie for $20.00 and invite dozens of people over to watch it comfortably.
The theater chains better watch out, or their days are numbered…
try going overseas to “developing countries” and ask them if they care about the quality of the movie. I know I didn’t for years.
Do the theaters provide lockers? Does carrying a camera mean that you will camcord the movie? If so, they should search for cigarettes as well, since cinemas are smoking-free environments…
EMP Field Generator?
Maybe the theater chains should just invest in some kind of electronic device killing equipment? That would knock out cellphone idiots that don’t turn off, and would kill all cam cording equipment as well. Of course, you’d have to have special theaters for people with hearing aids or pacemakers…
Theatre Mgr
In MY theatre – large bags are not allowed period. No backpacks, no large purses etc. In the winter we don’t allow over baggy coats as well.
And this is not to just stop cams either, this is to preserve what little profit the theatre makes on concessions to stay alive.
And BTW, watching a movie in your home and invite dozens of people over is against the license agreement you agree to when you purchased the DVD. I have read it was tried and failed to be a legit use considering the studios have the “private viewing in your own home” in there – more than just your immediate family according to them violates the agreement….
Dont get me wrong – i dont agree with it, but its there.
As far as the CAMs issue, blame your own country – after the US cracked down, they moved up there. Dont think that by not going to a movie theatre that it will kill them. Do you think the studios will make a multi million dollar film and just send it to DVD when 75% of their profits come from the movie theatres.
Its either the theatre does something about it, or take the risk of the studio not allowing their films in that theatre. Considering they know EXACTLY what theatre the CAM came from – every print is watermarked.
And its only going to get easier for them to shutdown a theatre when everyone is digital – they can revoke the play rights in about 30 seconds from the play server.
So the next time you get angry, dont blame the theatre, they are trying to survive. Your best bet is if you dont want to get searched, dont ware or carry anything to give them suspicion of you…..
Theatre Mgr in US
Theatre Mgr,
At my home (*MY* home) I will watch a movie with as many friends as *I* want. It is NONE of your f… business. You don’t like selling/renting the DVD to me, fine, don’t do it. Once I have *MY* hands on it, I am sorry but I can do whatever I please with it.
In fact, as of lately, with the common non-sense that the movie studios are taking to their “intellectual property” (e.g., the other day at a children’s theater performance–yes, the actors were children–we were informed that nobody could take pictures of the play because of copyright/licensing issues. WHAT A NONSENSE!) I am in a personal vendetta: I loan all my DVD’s to all my friends. They can have a blast watching and not have to pay.
DVD license ?
> watching a movie in your home and invite dozens of people over is against the license agreement you agree to when you purchased the DVD
Excuse me? When was the last time you were required to sign a license to purchase a DVD?
Brad
One more reason I do not go to big chain theatres. I go to small-town privately owned theatres (that charge less than 1/2 the normal rate) or small drive-ins. When they start doing this, I guess I’ll just stay at home and wait for it to get to Blockbuster…
\”They have no legal right to search you.\”
They have no legal right to search you if you are just wandering on the street in front of the theatre, yes. However, once you enter their property, they can set whatever rules they want, as long as their rules don\’t violate laws. I have every right to demand a strip search of you when you enter my house, if I so choose. You chose to enter their property, you chose to buy a ticket. As you say, you are fully within your rights to ask for a refund and leave if they demand a search. But they *DO* have a legal right to search you if you insist on going in to the movie.
Here in Oregon, the right to carry firearms is a law. I can carry an (unloaded) firearm around downtown Portland, and the police can\’t do anything about it. (Although if I make any actions that are considered \”menacing\”, they can arrest me.) I can carry a fully loaded handgun in a hidden holster if I have a \”Concealed Weapons Permit\” (to get one, all you have to do is attend a gun safety course, and not be a felon, insane, or have a restraining order against you,) anywhere but a courthouse and the secure part of the airport. (Some cities also ban them in schools, some don\’t!) But, if a business posts a sign \”no firearms allowed, even concealed\”, then my \”right\” to carry goes away. That business is private property. They have the right to post such rules, including searching for firearms, even \”invasive\” searches, as long as they don\’t go so far as the search itself being criminal.
Nick
“The theatre typically prefers to target its searches to males between 18 and 35 with backpacks.”
They also prefer to limit it to gays, blacks and other groups they just “know” are more criminal. They just don’t like to mention those aspects as people tend to get a little sensitive. Well, who knows whether they do or don’t, but the point remains that discriminating against and profiling one group is no more or less acceptable than discriminating against any other group.
It also adds the ridiculous side that anyone wanting to pirate movies in that chain will hire a 40 year old woman with a small camera in a small purse as the idiots have anounced they don’t waste their time searching them.
Profiling, once again, demonstrates its biggest challenge is deciding whether it’s more biggoted or more stupid.
Caco,
I can see that you are passionate about what your saying but don\’t attack Theatre Mgr especially when they made it clear that they don\’t agree with it. Theatre Mgr is correct DVD rentals clearly state within the license agreement that it is for \”private viewing only\” – which is probably defined somewhere, and probably doesn\’t allow for dozens of friends.
But times are definitely changing, this year computer games surpassed movies for profitability.
propagandhi
The movie/theatre scene is becoming just like the music scene, and as usual, rather than meeting technology head on and profiting from it in legitimate ways, the movie industry is starting to become one where you trust no-one – everyone is a criminal, and we’re all stealing from them.
I’d guess if the theatre or movie companies offered something back to us that we can appreciate instead of feeling like we’ve been ripped every time we pay for a movie that is utter garbage, we’d probably be a little more loyal back to them. I can name about two movies I’ve seen in the last year that I thought were really good, and that I purchased later on DVD. They pump out this tripe and then cry because we don’t think it’s worth paying for? Prices in cinema’s steadily go upwards and movie quality goes downwards. Even purchasing snacks in a theatre is a sting on the hip pocket. How about stop paying your actors so much just to be in one of your films, then you can reduce all your costs and not cry when your movie doesn’t make the 200 million you’re after.
The whole industry sucks, they’re killing everything that used to be fun.
To Caco;
So if I take your wallet from your pocket I can do whatever I please with it because my hands are on it, right?
Intellectual property is a well-adjudicated, legal concept that is here to stay whether you like it or not; get used to it. Ranting about it does not devalue the hard work that the industry did to produce the product.
Night Vision Goggles?
Why doesn’t the cinema just purchase a pair of night vision goggles. Then an usher can take a look around each theatre just after the movie starts to see if anyone is breaking the law by using a camcorder. If they spot someone, they can call in the cops (assuming the movie is >90 minutes long, that should give plenty of time for the cops to respond). They could even use an IR camera to get some photos to use as evidence.
Definition of Public Performance
With respect just what qualifies as a “private performance” here is what USC Title 17.101 says is a public performance:
(1) to perform or display it at a place open to the public or at any place where a substantial number of persons outside of a normal circle of a family and its social acquaintances is gathered;
So, while this is a canadian blog, I’m going to use the US definition, OK? Mr Theater Manager/ MyKroft you are incorrect. Watching a dvd at home with dozens of family members and friends is considered a private performance and thus not prohibited by copyright law. If he lets in strangers or starts charging for viewing, then it becomes a public performance which requires the licensing of public performance rights just as it is at your theater.
Yeah I am that AC who did the “First Post” thing.
Theatre Mgr
Yes – the public performance definition is very vague – and again I will state that I dont agree with it – but remember – you are fighting BIG corporations with BIG pockets.
One thing to keep in mind – its not the theatre owners/chains pushing the searching for CAMs – Is like the relationship of the the state and federal governments in the US – the states can not follow the federal “rules/regs” – but they will come back and bite you in the butt if you dont. Prime example was Montana’s no speed limit law after the 55 speed limit was gone – a speed limit of 75 was shoved down their throat by the feds. It was either put in place a speed limit or we pull your federal highway funding…….
The studios are the same say with theatres – part of my theatres agreement to get some of the studios movies is we HAVE to have a CAM warning poster up in the lobby. Its tasteless and I dont like it, but I dont have a choice because they do send in reps to check on poster displays, trailers, copyright ads etc. Dont have them in place, risk having your movie pulled. Disney is the worst.
So again, I understand where you guys are comming from, but again please rememeber not all the theatres out there are the bad guys – our hands are tied and are tired of getting beat over the head about it just like you guys are.
My suggestion to ppls who break the law and CAM and make it hard for the rest of us – move and sit in front of them – nobody wants to watch the back of someones head 🙂
Theater Mgr,
Instead of working tomorrow, take the day off. Go down to the nearest community college and enroll in a course or two or ten. Start training for a new job, because very soon you will be out of a job as theaters go out of business.
You cannot compete with my living room.
Boyle M. Owl
“you are fighting BIG corporations with BIG pockets. ”
Yeah? So? This is a reason to just bend over and take it?
I’m sorry, but you are advocating spineless cowardice. Any theater that searches me, says my coat is too big, disallows my shopping bag _even though the theater is in a mall_ and otherwise treats me like a criminal, can piss off. I’ll go to the indy theater down the road, TYVM. I am your _customer_. I am not a criminal.
—
BMO
While this is Quebec its a little murky.
But if you go look up the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms, It clearly states 8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.
Unless they amend the charter of rights directly (to my knowledge) they can not override it with another law.
As it stands with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms this law suit has very good legal grounds.
I am from Ireland and currently went on a holiday in Canada for 3 1/2 weeks. Going to the cinema in Montreal was the worst Cinema experience that I ever had. 1 you pay for your ticket but you don’t get a seat for the busy movies ( seat allocation is always done for busy movies in Ireland ) . The lack of this in Canada is just a sign of how bad the customer is treated. So many add’s. In Ireland you can ask hom many minutes of adds there is before the movie so you can plan your arival towards the end of them (usually about 10 mins here but in Montreal I forgot what movie I was watching before it started because they went on so long. The cinema that I went to was near the Heaton center. The collected tickets on each floor rather than at the bottom so it ment you had to q 3 times. 1 for buying the ticket. 2 to get past each floor and 3 to get into the screen and sit in the first come first serve seats. I went to see Harry Potter and it was a joke. People were sitting on the floor up to an hour before the movie. I couldnt believe it. On my floor there was 1 toliet and 3 urinals which was susposed to be for 4 plus screens for 1000 guys I guess. Then they closed them off. Put up no sign that they had done so with no information on were another toliet could be found. I had to go down a flor to find one which was fenced off behind a q of people q’ing for another movie. I crossed the q and was called back by security and I told them I was going to the toliet. The staff are trained very badly. My bag was searching going into the Cinema also which I didnt know why. We are not searched at home. Most Cinema’s at home are equiped with a set of night vision goggles so that they migh catch someone with a camera.
To me paying customers are been f’d over again just like.
1. Watching a dvd and not being able to skip the stupid pirate info.
2. CD’s and there crippling anti-pirate software on them that open exploties on your machine.
3. For the canadians a tax on piracy when they buy dvd’s cd’s and ipod’s.
I am sorry to say but consumer protection for this crap in Europe is a lot better.
The difference being here there is agencies that will fight for your rights for free. And then there is the US where you have to file a Class action law suit to get your point across about anything because there is feck all protection.
I did have a nice holiday though 🙂
Hypocrites!
You wouldn’t steal a car
You wouldn’t steal a TV
You wouldn’t steal a handbag
You wouldn’t steal electricity
electricity
***ELECTRICITY***
Unskippable ads are stealing
The original above ad about stealing (pirating (arrrggghhh me hearties, where’s the boats?) films) seems to totally forget that the 30 second ad itself is stealing.
To play that ad, I’ve had to run my DVD player. I also run my TV and surround sound, and use 30 seconds of *MY* time. These have all been use and cannot be reclaimed. If they’re not going to pay me for them, they have stolen them.
That ad appears on quite a few DVDs of mine and I’ve spent at least 15 mins playing it (losing 15 mins of advertising revenue as well – they haven’t paid me to advertise in my living room).
That 15 mins of electricity stolen may not seem much, but when you add up *ALL* the copies of the DVDs I have with those ads and their playing, that’s one heck of a lot of electricity they’re happy to steal from us.
Not very green, either – consider the waste that it soon adds up to be.
I haven’t been to a cinema in years. The Simpsons movie is making me want to go there, but I think I will just wait and either rent it on DVD, or borrow it from a friend or co-worker.
I stopped going to watch movies in cinemas because I disliked the way the cinemas treated me. We do not have searches here in Germany. But we do have very obnoxious commercials against piracy, and big posters in the lobby. “Piracy is a crime”, they state. “Don’t be a criminal!”
Well guess what? The people who go there to see those commercials and posters – 99.999%+ of them – won’t film the movie off of the cinema screen. Those that do won’t be discouraged by either. Meanwhile, you are ruining the experience for me. It annoyed me so much that I simply said “screw you” and stopped going to the cinema.
I also stopped purchasing DVDs after my Donnie Darko DVD had the same type of commercial on it – and of course it can’t be skipped. That was only a year ago, but so far I have not spent another Euro on DVDs.
Of course, if more people did this, the movie company would just cry “Piracy!” some more, and bribe the gov’t into passing new, tougher laws. Yes, lobbyism is corruption. So that’s another reason why you shouldn’t spend money on movies anymore.
Engineer (Retired)
“While this is Quebec its a little murky.
But if you go look up the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms, It clearly states 8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.”
Very true, EXCEPT that is a prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure BY THE GOVERNMENT. It does not directly apply to searches by a business required to enter their property. Sorry!
Used to visit the cinema lots. We hardly ever go now. It is expensive and not a pleasant experience. Even, the kids are unimpressed.
Used to be that the customer was all important. Sadly these days are over. The downside is that we will be fed a diet of Spiderman 25 type films and a range of tacky teen movies because those will be the only ones that make any money.
Carrying a camera does not mean intent to use it. Who says that a trip to see a 90 minute film means you don’t plan to do anything more for the rest of the day?
Loosers
Haha.
Going to movies is LAME any way you look at it.
And I\’m not even taking into account this search stuff the guys in US/Canadians let themself go trough.
First you have to have so little to do that you decide to go see a movie.
Then you have to find a movie worth paying for. (Good luck!)
Next is blowing of your whole day to match the stupid time they screen it. (But you had no life anyway)
Now you have to travel to the cinema 2-3 hours before it starts just to get a ticket. (Did I mention having no life?)
So you hang around at the cinema, spending half your wallet on some snack. (Overpriced, tastes bad, totally unhealty…)
Then you have to go in and watch a mindwashing amount of cheesy commercials. (All telling you to give THEM your money)
In front of you is some 7,5 feet guy, at your left a smelly thing that never took a bath.
And both your neighbours have taken the armleans!!! (Are we enjoying ourself yet?)
Then the move start and as expected it\’s crap! (And if it\’s not. Can you REALLY enjoy it?)
In the middle of the movie you have to use the bathroom… (No pause option…)
Someones cellphone rings and you miss some critical part. (No problem lets just rewind!)
You run out of snack. (No refill or you miss much of the movie)
The couple behind you start having sex out of boredom. (This might actually be positive!)
After what seems like forever the movie ends and you leave. (Stiff and aching from the cramped seat)
And guess what you are thrown you the backentrance!!! (Please leave quickly now that we have parted you from your money)
If you need to pee you have to go around the theater again. (If you have time)
Then you need to travel back home feeling like the looser you really are. (Since you lost control of your bladder halfway home)
Anyone willing to admit that they go to the movies?
(First step is admitting you have a problem!)
Canadian charter of rights and freedoms
well Tomas, heres the act [ link ] please specify were it says this only apply’s to the government, and business is exempt from the the Charter?
Theatre Mgr –
Your ignorance of facts, common sense and your spineless endorsement of government control is just astounding – even for an American.
It has been repeatedly proven that camera-recording is not a Canadian piracy issue. This is total bullshit generated by the MPAA and lobbying interests and repeatedly regurgitated by mass media with no attempt to discern fact from FUD. The goal is to open up the Canadian legal system to lawsuits against the public at random, tactics now commonly used in the US.
The ‘license agreement’ to watch a DVD in your own home is as much bullshit as most software licenses – a completely unenforceable scare tactic. The legalese on a disc cites that public display or broadcast is prohibited, but what’s the definition of a public display? If there is no admission fee to view the performance, how can you define it as such?
>>if you dont want to get searched, dont ware or carry anything to give them suspicion of you
WOW – just like flying, crossing the border, or disagreeing with the government nowadays, huh? It amazes me how Americans still believe they live in a free country. Free to shoot each other with submachineguns, but don’t you dare take a backpack to a movie theatre!
Please take your corporate shilling back where it came from.
best regards,
Canada.
Simplicity
Why not provide lockers in the theater where people with bags can store them. It would solve both problems at once without resorting to searching: large bags are stored securely while patrons enjoy the movie and the owners/mpaa/evil bastards from hell don’t have to worry about stuff being smuggled in via those large bags (hey, including that whole “outside food” problem).
To the issue itself, I would refuse to be searched *anywhere* except, possibly, by an on-duty police officer or, I suppose, airport security. I would never consent to being searched by “mall security” (which is probably the same kind of rent-a-cop you might find at a movie chain).
Nuance.
Ever since I moved to Israel, I got used to people looking in my backpack when entering public places. The reason for this is not because they’re looking for camcorders, obviously. They’re looking for suicide bombers. In this case it is the best solution to unite the public good with the political situation, so I can live with that. To cut a long story short, I can make allowances, but I would for instance not at all be charmed about getting searched by a policeman on duty without probable cause. It’s not who searches me but the why that’s important.
To get to the theatres… I like going to theatres because still the atmosphere of a movie theatre has something magical for me. Furthermore, the quality of many movies isn’t as bloody bad as some posters in this forum would like to believe. Now in Europe and Israel (I’m Dutch and used to live in Sweden too) we have numbered seats/tickets, we have no such searches and generally the consumer is rather respected. If I got the distinct impression I was being treated like a trivial cash-cow, I would no longer go to the theatre.
By the sound of it, the Canadian and US situation has spun out of control. The Hollywood studios were once a free-wheeling group of movie makers who branched off from Thomas Edison’s phonograph company to do indie movies, for crying out loud. And 100 years down the line they are far worse than Edison ever was in their bigotry. I find it Ironic that the land of the free doesn’t protect it’s citizens and consumers from ill-doing. With regards to that the EU is a lot more about freedom than the US seem to have been in the last 50 years or so.
So, anyone who violates my privacy without due cause as *I* see it simply loses my patronage. Mr Guzzo could therefore stick his theatres where the sun don’t shine if they insisted on searching me. I would simply demand a refund *loudly and publicly* and vacate the premises, never to return to the establishment in question.
This is my prerogative and I do not see why a huge, plenary discussion should influence my personal state of being.
Sorry, I have a quick rant that I must get off my chest.
I think the the theater chains should keep up the good work by stopping the thieves, criminals, terrorists, grandmas, puppy dogs and even rainbows.
My feeling is that Hollywood has for the most part become a bunch of left-winged nuts who don’t realize that they are supporting the media distributors that I commonly refer to as “the man”. 😉
Media distribution has changed throughout history and will continue to change as clock ticks. Forget the theater, take a step back and realize that even the old dvd is on its way out. The next big thing is that media will be distributed via all these little networks that are interconnected on this thing we call the internet.
I want my movies, music the “Burger King way”….”MY way”. Hollywood will get with the program eventually. You can whine about it or hitting where it hurts, the bank. I’m voting with my dollar. Now the question you have to ask yourself is what are you gonna do?
DM
Well, I can say one thing for sure. The North American entertainment industry is working very hard to kill itself. They are claiming that they are losing money due to piracy… uhmmm, no… they’re losing money due to crack heads in organizations like the RIAA pushing for anti-piracy this and that while making it less and less convenient to use their product.
BS
cam rips are taken at screening tests of the movie itself.
Of course everyone has seen cam versions where you hear ppl talk/laugh and occasionaly some heads, but that’s really so 5 years ago.
In Belgium, we also have these warnings and anti-piracy commercials, the truth is that NO ONE is gonna take a cam inside a theater in the western world to tape the movie.
First of all, a cam version is already available through bitTorrent before the general public even has access to the movie in a regular fashion.
I went to the movies to watch the Simpsons last weekend (haven’t been to the movies in months, if not over a year) and they put a 10 minutes intermission in the middle of the movie !!! Guess what??? I’m not gonna go to the movies again. They ruined the whole fvcking mood.
Wow the comments here are awful. Way to shoot from the hip people. Instead of reporting your ludicrous impression perhaps you should report actual evidence.
Everyone seems to take it as an article of faith that they must issue a refund if you don not consent to be searched. This is not the case. If you refuse to be searched you have broken the contract between you and the theater, not them. No refund would legally be due.
Mr
Theatre Mgr wrote:
“And BTW, watching a movie in your home and invite dozens of people over is against the license agreement you agree to when you purchased the DVD.”
This is UTTERLY false. You’re not supposed to charge for a “private performance”, but you can invite 100 people over to watch it if you like and there is NOTHING illegal about doing so. “Theatre Mgr” is making this stuff up as he goes along.
Actually if you want to annoy them you should take their statement to the state. They said they “mainly target [..] males”. Thats gender discrimination and itself questionable. You might also want to ask them (or test) the ratio of black v white people in your group who are searched.
In the UK it’s rare to have a bag searched, and many cinemas have reserved seating for the busiest screens/films. All as it should be. The real problem with the forced Piracy ads and so on is that they make the legitimate product worse in comparison to the pirate one – you can generally skip the piracy ads (or they’re no in at all) in a pirate version.
What’s surprising is that few in the movie industry seem to have cottoned on to this – between piracy ads in movies, forced ads in DVDs, copy protection stopping some DVDs working in some players, methods for reducing the output resolution of protected HD movies on some output methods, etc, the legitimate product is devalued relative to the pirate one. The forced ads also take space on the disc, so this may cause the actual feature to be compressed more potentially, further reducing quality. Maybe they should stop calculating fictional losses as if every pirate DVD sold is £20 out of their pockets, and instead look at how they can make the legitimate product more appealing. Stop bag searches, stop using stupid piracy ads, improve the customer experience, and generally treat your customers with the respect that you expect of them.
Why not use IR to blind camcorders?
I don’t know how true this is for all camcorders, but my Sony’s CCD’s are sensitive into the IR range. If this were widespread, couldn’t they just place IR floodlights pointed at the audience to blind any camcorders? The IR would be invisible to the naked eye and would not interfere with the movie experience.
[ link ]
With these 24 movie screen theaters these days, why can’t the managers show the movies in different formats? Have one set of screen that will have a built in intermission. At periods throughout the movie a number will appear in the lower part of the screen telling you how many minutes to go until the intermission. If I knew I only had to wait 15 more minutes, I can hold the trip to the restroom.
Another screen could employ anti electronic technology. No camcorders, no cell phones, pagers, PDA’,s etc. By going into that movie you know that nothing electronic will work.
Then for the movie purists, you can have a set of screens that simply play straight through.
Different options for different folks. In this age of Lord of the Ring 3+ hour movies, I can’t sit that long!
I agree with previous posters about the home theater experience. I average about one movie a year now. I’d rather get the DVD, and watch it at home on my own schedule.
Saw Transformers & Spiderman 3 this year. Last movie was War of the Worlds, then Star Wars Revenge of the Sith. But I’ve bought plenty of DVD’s.
Charter
In response to O’neill, Tomas is right. The Charter applies only to legislation and policy of the federal and provincial governments. See section 32.
Citizen of Canada
Quote:
Section Eight of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms provides everyone in Canada with protection against unreasonable search and seizure. This Charter right provides Canadians with their primary source of constitutionally enforced privacy rights against unreasonable intrusion from the state. Typically, this protects personal information that can be obtained through searching someone in pat-down, entering someone’s property or surveillance.
Under the heading of legal rights, section 8 states:
“ 8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure. ”
Any property found or seized by means of a violation of section 8 can be excluded as evidence in a trial under section 24(2).
Reasonable expectation of privacy
Generally speaking, the reasonable expectation of privacy does not protect against normal searches or seizures. Rather, the right focuses on the action being unreasonable on the basis that it violates an individual’s reasonable expectation of privacy.
Search
Not every form of examination constitutes search. A search within the meaning of section eight is determined by whether the investigatory technique used by the state diminishes a person’s reasonable expectation of privacy. The focus of analysis is upon the purpose of the examination. A police officer who compells someone to produce their licence would not be invasive enough to constitute a search (R. v. Ladouceur, [1990][1]). Equally, an inspection of the inside of a car is not a search, but questions about the contents of a bag would be. (R. v. Mellenthin [1992][2])
Seizure
The meaning of seizure is fairly straight forward. In R. v. Dyment (1988),[3] the Court defined it simply as the “taking of a thing from a person by a public authority without that person’s consent.” This meaning has been narrowed to cover property taken in furtherance of administration or criminal investigation (Quebec (Attorney General) v. Laroche, [2002][4]).
References
1. ^ R. v. Ladouceur, [1990] 1 S.C.R. 1257.
2. ^ R. v. Mellenthin, [1992] 3 S.C.R. 615.
3. ^ R. v. Dyment, [1988] 2 S.C.R. 417.
4. ^ Quebec (Attorney General) v. Laroche, [2002] 3 S.C.R. 708
Since bill C-59 hasn’t passed yet, anything they did find on your person would be excluded from court since it was obtained unlawfully.
MovieGoer
To me the public viewing prohibition on DVD was so that a pub or restaurant could not profit by showing a DVD (by showing it for free and having more patrons buying more of their stuff ) and that the movie industry cannot profit themselves from it.
And for movie theaters : Love the Huge Screens and stadium seating ( nobody’s heads in front of me ) Super surround sound. But the prices for food is unreal. People sneak in food… no kidding! Cut the prices in half for the food and then it sort of makes sense…almost…
MovieGoer
Hey Chris
For a guy that calls people “Loosers” and don’t have a life, you sure took the time to analyze the situation in very minute detail. Look in the mirror man . Like you said : First step is admitting you have a problem!
Have a nice day.
Citizen
Get over it people. Searching you for a camcorder is not unreasonable. You are paying for the *privilege* of watching that movie. That’s right, it’s a privilege not a right. Nowhere in any consititution of any nation are you granted an intrinsic right to view someone else’s work of art (no matter how little artistic value there may be in the film). They made the film. They get to set the terms for you to view it. They set the time, location and price for the viewing and are now in the face of piracy problems, they are setting a reasonable entry criteria.
The people who paid millions of dollars to make the film have a right to protect their investment. Movies are a business, not a charity. They aren’t spending their dollars just to make you happy. They hope that you will pay a small concession in exchange for a couple hours of entertainment. If you don’t like it, don’t go. Period.
Sure maybe this will be another nail in the coffin of the movie theater. Maybe. I don’t like the high prices, rude people talking during the movie, cell phones that ring, crying babies and people who get up during the film. But don’t forget that going to a public movie theater is also a social experience. I might be able to see the movie for less at my home theater setup, and increasingly we do, but my wife and I still like to *GO OUT* to the movies. We enjoy a ride on the motorcycle, a nice dinner and a movie at the theater. So don’t understimate the value of the theater as a destination.
As far as search methods are concerned–just because X-Ray machines exist does not mean that theatres should be required to use them to save you from having your purse searched. They can use whatever method is reasonable. I doubt any judge will think twice about someone poking through your bag. Here in Central Florida we expect to have our bag searched when entering a theme park. It’s just a fact of life now.
And do you honestly think that Night Vision Goggles are the answer? You complain about privacy in searching your bag as you enter a private business, but you’re perfectly willing to let someone watch you with NVG equipment? That seems like a much bigger invasion of privacy to me. Some horny 19 year old kid spying on you while you’re making out in the dark with your girlfriend? I’ll take the bag search, thank you.
Lost Battle
Searching movie-goers in hope to decrease (!) copyright infringement is like trying to stop the flood with your bare hands. Even if every theater would search every person and survey the cinema with night-vision goggles there would still be cam-shots… you just need one (!) person working for the cinema willing to let the new fangled movie be copied and you’ve already lost the battle once more.
In the end theaters will need still have people willing to watch the movie. But if they choose to tread their customers like thiefs, then there will be allot few.
Former Movie Goer
I do not go to movies anymore. They are too expensive. The concession is a joke – I stopped buying at them long before I quit going.
The entertainment industry is dying. The movies suck. Can’t really take kids to them anymore either – too much sexual innuendo and swearing (Cat in the Hat, many others). They repeat the same movies with different, less capable actors. There are gratuitous sex scenes merely to raise the rating. I still haven’t seen the latest release of Titanic because of these reasons. The old black and white version still works for me.
And then there are the commercials. I hate going to a 7pm show to watch 12 minutes of commercials for r-rated films I will never watch. DVDs? They are making it tough to skip commercials. I do not want to watch them, I BOUGHT THE MOVIE NOT THE RETARDED COMMERCIALS.
To be honest, I do not even think it worth the time and little effort it would take to download that trash to see it.
There was a place in the USA (land of the free…) that took a movie you purchased and edited out scenes and language – until the movie industry stopped it (land of the not so free anymore).
I find it disturbing that my wife still buys movies in the discount pile or previously viewed. I rarely watch them for the same reasons above.
I will likely own all the Harry Potter movies because my kids like them and I do own the Lord of the Rings Trilogy because I like them. The rest of the movies in the last 10+ years? Next 10 years? No way.
RE: Citizen
“They aren’t spending their dollars just to make you happy.”
Actually, they are. They are selling a luxury product, not an essential product. LUXURY PRODUCT.
I have no need to spend money on a LUXURY PRODUCT, and will definitely not do so when treated like a criminal.
“Here in Central Florida we expect to have our bag searched when entering a theme park. It’s just a fact of life now.”
That is a sad state of affairs. It should not be a “fact of life”. The founding fathers of the USA knew that much:
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – Benjamin Franklin
Jack Thompson
I have stopped watching english hollywood movies a long time ago. Recently I have been watching foreign films, specifically bollywood, cantonese, mandarin, and japanese movies and dramas. They seem to have a lot less of bs and more about storytelling. It really has opened up a new whole world to me.
Bored of hollywood’s sex, violence, and lame advertising. Watch something new…
Irony
The irony of the anti-piracy adds on DVDs is that if you rip them and remove the region settings, you’ll be able to skip those adds. I know people who own the movie and still rip just so that they can skip the adds.
Just leave
Those saying we should simply refuse a search and get a refund if necessary are 100% correct. The only right the theater has is to refuse your patronage.
Don’t make a scene; don’t yell, don’t be rude.. just politely tell them they aren’t searching your stuff, period. If they say you can’t watch the show without being searched, ask for a refund and leave. Explain politely that you find this invasive and rude, and will not be giving them your business in the future.
The same goes for department stores, malls, theme parks and any other place where you go to spend your hard earned money. If you don’t vote with your money and let them know why, nothing will ever change.
Devin is right. The search could be considered unreasonable and unlawful. Theatre managers are just like any other loser with a polyester shirt and too much sense of authority. They enjoy throwing their buttery popcorn enhanced weight around, so they are using the spectre of C-59 to scare people into compliance. It is Bull, this lawsuit demonstrates the dangers of writing checks your butt cannot cash.
Skip piracy ads
An easy way to skip the anti-piracy ads on DVDs is to go to the first chapter instead of hitting “Play”. This always starts the movie immediately.
To address the theatre manager for a minute: You state: “this is to preserve what little profit the theatre makes on concessions to stay alive.” What a joke! If your theatre is just marginally profitable, you are doing something wrong. I managed several movie theatres, so I know you keep about 50% of the box office and 100% of the concessions. The candy is rather expensive, but a 300-400% markup is common. Popcorn and soda costs pennies per container, so that’s almost all profit – the containers used to cost more than the popcorn or soda sometimes. I know there’s overhead – seats, projectors, rent, electricity is expensive, but stating “little profit” is ridiculous unless you’re showing foreign films in the ‘burbs.
And what happened to making the customer happy? If I want to bring in my own soda and snacks, why would you stop me? If you do stop me, I’m never coming back, much less buying your concessions. It costs you absolutely nothing to allow a patron to bring in food. Some people love theater concessions and will gladly pay for it (I still do – non-microwave popcorn is great), but the people that bring in food aren’t going to buy anything from you anyway. Be grateful you got half of the ticket price from them.
to Rando
Yes Rando, you are free and america isn’t LOL
You have a government that limits your speech on a daily basis, with their laws to protect political correctness. You couldn’t even get Howard Stern up there. You are so free you will get fined if you say Retard on TV. LOL You do have one right and only one right we envy and that is at your gentleman establishments. LOL
If you don\’t want to submit to a search, get a refund and leave. Or better yet, don\’t bring bags to a theatre that might arouse suspicion. But as mentioned earlier, who the hell goes to theatres these days anyhow? The last movie I saw, and will ever see in a germ-filled theatre, was Revenge of the Sith.
Have something to hide?
What’s the fuss about the movie theater taking a look inside your bag? Do you have something to hide? First, why are you going to see a movie with a backpack? Are you going camping?
Unless we’re talking about a “full body search”, I don’t think that having a peek in a bag is “invasive”…
In Québec, you cannot sue for anything but ACTUAL damage… I would be curious how she’ll manage to justify $60,000…
The Charter doesn’t apply
Do note that the Montreal woman is seeking damages for the _way_ the search was done, she’s not arguing that the search itself was unreasonable. Those arguing that the Canadian Charter applies here are simply wrong. Section 8 refers to searches by a ‘public authority’. So you can still turn around and walk out of the theatre, but there’s nothing inherently unreasonable or illegal about a private business owner requesting to search your bag upon entry. Of course, it might offend customers, but that’s a different problem.
D Hump
“They aren’t spending their dollars just to make you happy.”
*Actually, they are. They are selling a luxury product, not an essential product. LUXURY PRODUCT. *
You are 1/2 right, 1/2 wrong. As you say, they are indeed SELLING A PRODUCT. Key word *SELLING*. Not giving away for free.
*I have no need to spend money on a LUXURY PRODUCT, and will definitely not do so when treated like a criminal.*
Then don’t buy it. No one is forcing you. For that matter, don’t buy groceries or clothes or shop in any store either. You are treated like a criminal there too. You are constantly watched by cameras and most merchandise is tagged with anti-theft devices. Stores have a right to protect themselves from theft. Making sure you don’t bring IN a camcorder is just as valid as making sure you don’t walk out of a store with a camcorder. Stealing is stealing. Period. There is no *RIGHT* in any consitution that allows you to commit a crime. We are allowed to take steps to stop theft. I lock my door when I leave the house. Does that make you feel like a criminal? Or should I just left people walk in to my house and just trust that they won’t steal my stuff, piss on the floor, rape my wife or kill my dog? Does my locked door make you feel like a criminal?
“Here in Central Florida we expect to have our bag searched when entering a theme park. It’s just a fact of life now.”
*That is a sad state of affairs. It should not be a “fact of life”.*
It IS sad, but it is not unethical, immoral or a sacrifice of any essential right. I make the CHOICE to be searched for the PRIVILEGE of riding rollercoasters. If I don’t want to be searched, I don’t go the the park. But then I don’t get to ride roller coasters. Theme parks are luxuries too.
The founding fathers of the USA knew that much:
“Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.” – Benjamin Franklin
And right they were, but as you said in your first opening argument–we are talking about A LUXURY PRODUCT. Seeing the latest Harry Potter at the theater is not exactly “An Essential Liberty”, now is it? It is in fact a commercial arrangement between two private entities (you and the theater owner (who acts on behalf of the film owner)). The founding fathers were talking about rights of people vs. their government, not fair and honest commerce between individuals.
Go ahead leave
To those who say: “Just leave, they’ll get the message.”
I say go ahead. You’re probably the dumbass chatting on his phone the whole time. Now I’ll have a better view.
To those who say: “I don’t care. I don’t see movies anymore because they all suck.”
-I say, go to film school and make your own movie and see if anyone want to watch it. I doubt anyone will care.
-I also say, read about box office results on line. The fact is a LOT of people are still going to go. By you not showing up and demanding *higher artistic quality* you are preordained to get a finer and finer grade of crap to choose from. Movie theaters write movies that their demographics demand. You are helping them focus their market.
-I also say, you need to see more movies if you think today’s movies suck. Directing is better than ever. There are more quality actors than ever before. There are better production values than ever before. Technology allows stories to be told the way they should be told more than ever before. True, you may not always like the story that is told, but see the above comment–you chose to have hollywood abandon your demographic by not showing up.
To those who say: “Theaters are too expensive.”
I say you’re right about that. You have the choice to go to a second run theater, wait for DVD or wait for it to be on free TV. Go ahead and wait then. Just SHUT THE HELL UP so I can watch the movie now.
To those who say: “Theaters are full of rude people.”
I say you’re right about that too. I think people need to speak up more when confronted by rudeness. I think ushers need to kick people out of theaters for talking. I think movie patrons should be able to collect damages from other patrons. If your cell phone goes off, YOU should refund my money.
Dread Pirate
They just want an excuse to look for people bringing in candy and drinks. I know I do, because I’m not going to pay 6$ for a freakin’ bag of stale popcorn, and another 6$ for a watered down drink. They want to search me, I just won’t go to the theatre, pointe finale.
In my theatre, backpacks and cameras are not the problem. ITS YOU FREAKING PEOPLE WHO USE YOUR CELL PHONES IN THE THEATER. PLAYING GAMES, TEXTING AND EVEN MAKING/TAKING CALLS WHILE THE FILM IS RUNNING.
I WISH THESE PEOPLE WOULD STAY HOME…….
Some comments and ideas
Den, and others, thank you. So glad to know that a few people still get it. This is the message we need to spread so that others can enjoy the same freedoms we strive to protect.
Louis, wow. I have heard that argument before. Whether or not someone has something to hide is not the issue. Say what you will about private businesses, but we in the United States are granted, among our personal freedoms, the protection from unwarranted search and seizure. Unless you’re specifically referring to suspicious activity involving a bag, you have the right to keep your business to yourself. Or even to carry a camera – you just can’t use it to illegally copy copyrighted material.
Getting to it: First of all, very interesting discussion; it mirrors something my friends and I have been talking about for some time. For one thing, the entertainment industry is a service industry. They seem to have forgotten, however, that they exist to service the consumer. As we go watch movies, buy DVDs and CDs, go to concerts, plays, sporting events – consumers generate the revenue they need for their continual existence. As long as the experience is enjoyable, there’s no problem; once they break that equilibrium, however…
As several of you on this page have said, a theater is a private business; almost a franchise for the industry. If you disagree with their policies, don’t give them any money. If the policy isn’t well advertised and you are informed after the purchase, demand your money back. Best to buy on a credit card; that way if they don’t freely give a refund, you can call your credit card company and tell them to refuse payment. Then, don’t stop there – spread the word. The Web is a great tool for that.
For naysayers out there, this does work. I have done this with local businesses and chains with varying success. Some made dramatic improvements, and I remain a happy customer. Some refused to change and are no longer in business. On occasion I have also asked my Congressman to step in, which he did.
Most folks like watching movies, but are fed up with some of the recent changes at movie theaters. My wife and I went to see a musical last month, which was a great experience, and they started seating for the show 30 min. prior. That struck me. Most movie theaters in my area start playing what amounts to commercialization 20 minutes prior to the movie start time, so by then most of the seats are taken. You have to show up at least 20 minutes prior to _that_ to get a good seat, so 40 minutes to an hour before showtime. I can choose my seat at purchase time for a play, or an airline ticket; this might be an idea to try for movie theaters.
As to the specific issue about cameras – I work in IT, and keeping up with software licensing for my company is part of it. There is a parallel there. Both industries feel that they’re loosing a lot of money to piracy, when in truth they spend more money on trying to thwart it. It doesn’t excuse the piracy, but most of the enforcement measures they’ve taken so far mainly hurt the legitimate consumer. Our local theaters – every one of them – do have closed circuit cameras installed, so they _can_ watch the audience for various reasons: a sudden health problem, illicit activities, piracy, etc. Though I suppose it can be argued that even that infringes on some freedoms, to me it seems a fair compromise, and does get around this particular issue. It’s less invasive than a search, and it’s sort of like just having ushers stand there and watch the audience for the duration of the film. You are out in public anyway, after all, and it is their theater.
I for one am against lockers in theaters; on occasion, I will bring my still camera with me if I’ll need/want it for something after the movie. Theaters, like amusement parks that have them, will limit their liability for anything you put in a locker; if you have your camera stolen from there, or from your car in their parking lot, they won’t cover your loss. And, if you leave it in your car on hot or cold days, that’s sure to damage your equipment anyway. Best to bring it with you, and keep it on you. Just don’t record the movie. : )
I think there is room for improvement. I think that theaters should either eliminate the advertising from before their movie, or, since they’re pulling revenue from that, reduce the price of admission for said movie. I don’t like being treated like a criminal, either, and that’s happening more and more in this country. Do what you can to limit your losses without infringing on my civil rights. The great thing is that there is opportunity here! Like I said, I have seen some companies adjust for the better and make a killing; the same can be applied to movie theaters. I don’t think a little equitable treatment is too much to ask. On the other hand, theaters, if you don’t want to stand up with us, enjoy unemployment.
PS: Concession stands – 3 issues: price, availability, efficiency. Some of my local theaters are getting better, but if it costs too much or takes too long to get a snack, or they don’t sell what you want, it’s not worth it. If you theaters want to make more money on concessions, actually _reduce_ the price, and _increase_ your inventory. Also, find a way to move people through your lines better/faster. What you loose per sale, you’ll make back in the number of sales. Stay away from exclusive contracts with soft drink and candy vendors. If somebody wants Kool-Aid, and you don’t sell it, they’ll just sneak it in.
PPS: To some of the previous posters: searching you in a movie theater without some suspicion that you’re about to cause some trouble is unreasonable. You have every right to carry a camera with you, so long as you don’t break the law with it. You can’t use it to tape copyrighted material, or start shooting in the bathroom or something, but it’s not reasonable to assume that just because somebody has a camera that they plan on using it illegally.
Blame yourselves
I have no sympathy for you whiny movie goers. My feeling is that is you’re stupid enough to stand in long lines for hours to watch some mindless conversion of yet another dated comic book, then you *deserve* to be strip searched by the staff. I go frequently to the cinema — but not your cinema. Mine has foreign and independent films, no commercials, and reasonable prices. I have never seen a single MPAA threat poster or vignette. The only thing that annoys me is the short sequence before the film starts where they say “the language of film is universal” in 17 languages, only one of which isn’t a European language…
I think the main point everyone is trying to get at is that a private business in Canada does not have the right to search you without your permission. Buying a ticket does not give them permission to, they have to ask you first and if you decline the most they can do is deny you entry to the movie. Whether or not you’d get a refund or not is a different debate. But seriously, the whole camcoder search is ridiculous. If the movie industry thinks searching people will somehow put a dent into movie piracy, they’re sadly mistaken. Piracy propogates on the internet, not in movie theaters. All you need is one guy with a camera in one movie theater anywhere in the world and there is still as much piracy online. This whole movement has about as much logic as damming a river with chicken wire.
Doesn’t have to be reasonable
Well said j1ggy. Many posters, both American and Canadian, are confusing their respective protection against unreasonable search with the right to simply “refuse” a search. The Fourth Amendment and s. 8 of the Charter protects citizens against their federal governments unreasonably conducting a search (neither relates to matters between private citizens or businesses). The point is that the government can forcibly search an individual, so the reasonableness of the search matters. A theater can’t conduct a search without permission. Once they get permission, the reasonableness of their request is 100% irrelevant, at least legally.
Personally, I enjoy watching movies at the theater, especially the large blockbusters with massive special effects budgets. The big screen, “movie” popcorn, and the entire ambiance of the place just creates a different mood.
For that, I am willing to pay the outrageous concession prices. Being searched is really a non-issue for me, just as it was a non-issue when I went to Disney World and was searched each day when entering the park. It’s a part of modern day life, and being as it is done by private businesses and not the government I don’t feel it is invasive or unreasonable.
Honestly, I don’t understand why it upsets so many people.
“Stores have a right to protect themselves from theft. Making sure you don’t bring IN a camcorder is just as valid as making sure you don’t walk out of a store with a camcorder. Stealing is stealing. Period.”
Yes, that is true. But speaking as a previous retail manager we have to have a reasonable belief that the person we are stopping has stolen something from the store. (i.e. visual observation of actual theft or suspicious patterns of behaviour) We cannot simply search everyone who is walking out our door or randomly search individuals.
To do otherwise 1. Irritates our customers so that they are not willing to return, 2. Wastes enormous amounts of staff time (adding to the operating cost of the business,) 3. Opens us up to legal action. This last is especially true if you have an official or unofficial policy of searching a particular target population.
All in all, not a great idea. But, I expect they’ll figure that out on their own soon enough. After all, theatres are businesses; anything practice that raises their operating costs while simultaneously lowering their attendance will quickly be dropped.
32. (1)This Charter applies
a) to the Parliament and government of Canada in respect of all matters within the authority of Parliament including all matters relating to the Yukon Territory and Northwest Territories; and
b) to the legislature and government of each province in respect of all matters within the authority of the legislature of each provinc
Manager
To all those who think theatre chains have concession prices as high as they do so we can sit back and laugh at those who will pay them; THINK AGAIN! Almost 100% of the money you pay for your ticket goes right back to the pigs in power above. Warner, Universal, Sony, Fox.. etc. Concession income IS the only real income a theatre can count on to pay for hydro, staff wages, movie rentals (yes, theatres rent as well). No, theatres in Canada DO NOT have a legal right to search people; nor do we have the right to sieze whatever is found. We do have the right to refuse you admittance to our establishment for ANY reason we choose but that is where it all stops.
Want to put an end to piracy?
Lower ticket prices and get people coming back to the theatre again. There are many days of the week where my theatre is less than 20% full and this is not helping anyone on any front. People would not be nearly as bent out of shape after seeing a bad movie if they had only paid half as much for it. I consider myself lucky as I do not have to pay for any of the movies I see, and I get a good idea of which ones I will purchase for my collection.
Attack the studios and their lap dog the MPAA if you want to put blame where it is due.
Theatres
Responding to a couple of comments people have made…
Not all theatre chains in Canada ban outside food and drink.
Most people DO NOT want beer being sold at the theatre and you can blame yourselves for coming to theatres drunk for this view.
If you want to stay at home and try to convince yourself that your BIG screen at the end of your livingroom is big enough go right ahead, my screens standing 70 feet tall are bigger and better ANY day of the week.
Manager and NO’Neill have a good grasp on Canadian law.
I ran the security dept of a Costo location for almost 5 years. The law is very clear. We can ask to search your bags and you can refuse. Just try and ask a lawyer to look in his briefcase without incurring a major (and unwinnable) suit. The best we can do is detain the person until the police arrive and only if we have reasonable suspicion (i.e., we actually saw the person steal something and they did not leave our eyesight for 1 minute – they could have ditched the item in that time).
When people know their rights and stand up for them, Guzzo will learn the hard way (declining sales, major lawsuits) that being overzealous and stepping on these rights doesn’t pay.
And a private business with doors open to the general public – even a private club like Costco – does not have carte blanche to do whatever it likes on its property.
Call me Bob
If you have a bag of stolen cash, you don’t drive through a stop sign in front of a police car. This post is just my own paranoid conjecture, but it makes too much sense in my mind to be anything else but the truth. I have always thought of Guzzo as a money laundering front. They accept only cash at the ticket counter and their money-till is nothing more than a typical kitchen drawer. Several times, I have shown up 10 minutes into a movie and when I asked for a ticket, the girl at the counter just gave gave me one from a pile of pre-printed tickets. I am sure that every single one of their showings is at or near full capacity, despite what the actual “posteriors in seats” figures might be.
ButIWannaVisit
Hey, if I flew to Quebec or Toronto, with my veery expensive camcorder, and a bunch of ruffians who run the theatre want to search me to just so I can see a movie, I say to hell with them and go elsewhere. As much as I’d like to see a new movie with my friends, I’m not going to go stick my 2000$ camcorder in a locker held shut for a dollar just to watch a movie for 90 minutes. I’m keeping the damn thing on me.
What theatres should be doing, is the same the grocery stores are doing, voluntary bag tag, stick a piece of tape OVER the bag (this will solve the sneaking snacks in too), or even supply a zip-lock style bag, seal it. If it’s opened on the way out, then alert the authorities.
I’m pretty damn sure, that that no private store, or theatre is allowed to apprehend you and hold you without enough evidence, because there will be a legal threat against the business if they were being held without proof. If someone camcordered a movie, the movie would still be on the tape, dvd,flash card or hard drive, all you have to do is prove it was used (one see the bag has been unsealed.) At least for hard drive cameras, the proof would still be on the camcorder, for removable media, they could conseal the media or pass them to an accomplice.
I still think it’s a horrible waste of police presence to even go after these people just like in a grocery store, yes it’s a crime, but anytime a cop is called to these 15$ crimes, it’s like the idiots that drive accross the town spending 10$ in gas for a 5$ saving in filling up with gas, it doesn’t make economic sense.
Hell I live in vancouver with the ‘transit cops’ which make even less economic sense, but hey they are catching actual wanted criminals sometimes. IP theives, just need to be fined and let go. Jail upon repeat offence.
I agree totally with the lawsuit for unreasonable search. I agree that targeting males of a certain age group is silly. I like to watch movies at home. Once I get HD it will really begin to rival movie quality.
Exercising other security, such as IR cameras and night vision goggles, would just make the theatre corporations look even sillier.
The mood of the times dictates force in place of reason, loss of privacy in place of respect for the customer, price gouging in place of value for money spent.
Consider our large scale stupidities: 1) we see business leaders as heroes; 2) we vote for George Bush or Stephen Harper; 3) we dismiss those who organize and protest in the community or the workplace as crackpots and communists; 4) we support those who say the big corporations when they insist that treating us like either thieves or morons is good for business.
Perhaps we deserve the disrespect we receive.
What’s good for General Bullmoose
I agree totally with the lawsuit for unreasonable search. I agree that targeting males of a certain age group is silly. I like to watch movies at home. Once I get HD it will really begin to rival movie quality.
Exercising other security, such as IR cameras and night vision goggles, would just make the theatre corporations look even sillier.
The mood of the times dictates force in place of reason, loss of privacy in place of respect for the customer, price gouging in place of value for money spent.
Consider our large scale stupidities: 1) we see business leaders as heroes; 2) we vote for George Bush or Stephen Harper; 3) we dismiss those who organize and protest in the community or the workplace as crackpots and communists; 4) we support those who say the big corporations when they insist that treating us like either thieves or morons is good for business.
Perhaps we deserve the disrespect we receive.
Theatre Mgr
\”In MY theatre – large bags are not allowed period. No backpacks, no large purses etc. In the winter we don\’t allow over baggy coats as well.
And this is not to just stop cams either, this is to preserve what little profit the theatre makes on concessions to stay alive. \”
Dude. The reason you\’re going bankrupt is nothing to do with piracy, it\’s because nobody wants to come and be treated like dirt in your pissy little nazi paradise. These measures, which basically consist of leaning on the little guy because you\’re shit-scared of the bigger kid in the playground leaning on you, are abusive and dishonourable, no matter the legal rights and wrongs of the situation.
Until you stop treating your customers like criminals, you stand no chance of running a successful business. I really hope you go bust soon, it\’s no more than you deserve.
Ineptitude
Well, this has been a very long and interesting read. I would agree with most everyone’s comments about illegal/annoying search. I can see how the MPAA and the like would want to curb the issue of piracy.
I am going to say this to them, every executive, every RIAA lawyer, every satellite company, everyone who feels that there is an injustice going on when it comes to technological theft.
Instead of whining about it, and trying to fix the problem with chicken wire (good quote j1ggy !!!), be inventive! Develop a new technology that will stop the piracy. Implement some form of technology advancement in order to *change* the way people access and view movies for instance. The trick here, and the key point, is to be *creative*. THINK! How can it be done?
DirecTV did it to all of us about, what was it now, 3 years ago? They managed to accomplish *EXACTLY* what I’m talking about here. They did whine, and bitched about piracy, and complained, and sent letters to people, and the like. In the end, they realized the only way to change the past, is to change the future. Screwed us all good too!
Dumb bastards the MPAA and the industry, they’ll never come up with the answer…I suppose we’ll just have to put up with the Gestapo tactics. Wait, who’s that going into Schindler’s List? Wasn’t that Hitler himself? Stop him, I think he was holding a Polaroid!
you pay for what you get – follow da mon
McCain-Feingold restricted citizens to $2k donations each while corporations have no limits. Is it any wonder RIAA, MPAA, Microsoft, AT&T, etc. are ignoring the anti-monopoly laws? Follow the bribes.
To see a current run (almost always crappy*) movie, I have 3 choices:
1) Skip out of work early, deal with traffic, pay $20+ for tickets for a family of four plus about $30+ for a garbage can sized small coke and some stale pop-corn, be forced to watch 45 minutes to an hours worth of commercial overload if I want a decent seat, and put up with rude people and their cellphones.
2) Download a (probably) crappy copy and pick up a twelve-pack for $5.
3) Just skip it. (Maybe I’ll rent it for $5).
And now the theaters want to add TSA style long lines and “security” for my added convenience? Does anyone else wonder why the media corporations’ profits are slowly dwindling?
* I mean really! Alvin and the Chipmunks is the best they could come up with for reviving from (a well deserved) death?
In Italy
In Italy only the Police can investigate into the bags or into the pockets.
It’s a question of liberty and respect of the human rights.
What kind of power have a private guard on my person?
He can ask me to open the bags, but I can refuse and reply to call the Police.
The Police is different, Police man is a referee guaranteed by the law and by the population. All townsmen are the same in front of the law. The Corporation is not a person, but represented by persons (managers).
Feedback
WOW! I am very amazed of all the responses from everyone here. I agree with most of them. It’s going to be very difficult for everyone on both sides (Business vs Individuals).
Comments for Business: Would you be willing to take the kind of treatment you asking of your customers?
Here are few answers we might all say:
1. Yes I would (most of you are probably lying)
2. No, but we have no choice if we want to stay in business (I would believe
this answer)
Comments for individuals: Would you do the same if you owned a business and try to protect yourself?
Here are few answers we might all say:
1. Yes I would, would not agree with it. Looking deeper; each of those people are
just another person who I can say, next if you say no.
As far as those other comments about public view: This is going to be like someone said, scare tactics. How in the world do the “business
world actually intend to enforce it? No US enforcement agency can go into your home with a warrant anyways.
Enough said. I am an individual and I feel I can do as I please as so long as it does not hurt anyone or break the law. Watching a movie with my wife, kids or friends is a normal American way of life. Do the “business” people actually think, I would have to purchase a DVD movie per family member?
Anyways, It is very frustrating, and I am glad a lot of people here either agree me or most feel the same way.
Mr. Nice Guy
I haven’t been to a theatre for a long time. The last movie I saw was Wild Hog to hang out with a friend I haven’t seen in years. I pick the movies I really want to see that’s worth seeing, worth my time, worth the effort, worth the money, worth putting up with expensive concession items, worth the expensive ticket price, and worth the bad seat I get sometimes with some loud mouth up front who laughs at not funny moments. Now, I watch movies I find worth buying and rent some movies in the luxury of my home theatre with a kick ass screen and kick ass Digital sound system. Hell, I even enjoy my comfortable kick ass couch, the great tasting movie food I’d like to eat (KFC anyone?), and you know what– I can make a loud comment and blow gas without offending anybody. ‘Nuff said.
Sign of the times
To this quote: \”Here in Central Florida we expect to have our bag searched when entering a theme park. It\’s just a fact of life now.\”
I have to agree with the other guy\’s comment that that is a sad state of affairs and that Benjamin Franklin quote by the way is also really well chosen.
I\’m afraid this is much bigger than the issue of going whether you have choice of either not going to the theater or putting up with this nonsense. The issue really is just what the guy from Florida says \”This is a fact of life now\”. Most people just put up with this crap and even get fooled into thinking it is only reasonable… but it really isn\’t.
It seems our society all around is getting increasingly more paranoid, scared and xenophobic. Big companies, corporate interests and government agencies are taking more and more liberties away from us all and getting most people to actually think this is \”perfectly reasonable\”.
Draconian and yet completely pointless airport security is just one example. Last time I flew, I was so \”dumb\” to put a tube of toothpaste in my hand luggage. Oh boy! yes maam I\’m really stupid, Yes I can see how that poses a security risk maam, please do confiscate it, thank you for doing your job\”. The searches at the theme park is another example of a general and pervasive paranoia that\’s slowly but surely creeping into every aspect of our lives and makes people ever more scared of eachother so they\’ll just put up with anything. This debacle with the searching for camcorders in theaters is just one more example in a long line.
Of course, that\’s great for big corporate interests, because it is a very good climate for them to get just about anyhting done. Civil liberties? Forget that, fightinh piracy and terrorism and child pornography are surely more important than your right to privacy no? You disagree? What do you have to hide!
As to the MPAA and its goons and other big media. I\’m fed up with them all. I haven\’t gone to a theater in years, I have never bought a DVD and I\’ve stopped renting them long time ago. I even canceled my cable subscription a long while ago. I can\’t stand watching most of the crap on it anyway because it is just so riddled with commercials I don\’t enjoy watching it and I think it is just not worth paying for.
Anything I watch nowadays I download \”illegally\” from the internet. It costs less (free!) and I get better qualit. (No annoying commercial crap). Plus I get it when I want, and watch it when I want etc. I also get to watch things from oversees which I otherwise probably even wouldn\’t have access to if I\’d have to depend on the local cable company to carry it or the local blockbuster\’s to carry it.
Do I feel bad about \”stealing\” their precious IP. Pfff… not really. With all their mafia tactics they\’ve long lost any respect from me and I feel almost like I have to, download even if just to make a point and stick it to them. Times are changing. With the internet its not them who\’s in control anymore, now it\’s the little guy with his internet connection who is in control. They better get with the program, start thinking about how to really serve the little guy rather than try to control them or screw them over, either that or they can just disappear for all I care.
Ofcourse, it is possible that we will face increasingly draconian measures from the copyright maffia and the internet will be turned into a bland cable-like, one way streaming communication channel for big corporate interests. Hey under the guise of \”national security\”, \”war on terror\”, \”combating child pornography\”, \”figthing piracy\” and so on you can certainly craft many a clever, devious yet perfectly reasonable justification that you can get expensive lobbyists and bought politicians
to use as a guise to sell this to the oh so gullible and already paranoid public right? After all are these not very good reasons for locking down the internet and bringing it under complete corporate control and total govenrment surveilance?
I\’ll be very sad, not because I won\’t be able to get MPAA approved movies for free anymore, but because that\’ll probably all that I\’ll be able to watch. Also… forget about freedom of speech and privacy as well, private communications are nothing but a way for terrorists and movie pirates to do their dirty deeds. If you have nothing to hide, what do you care that someone reads all your email, tracks what all the websites are that you visited, films you everywhere you go, opens all your letters and post packages etc.
After all, terrorism and piracy have to be fought… right? That justifies everything… right?
Not!
Something to hide?
If you don’t have anything to hide, why don’t you let them check your bags?
If you’re not a criminal , you simply won’t hide..?
And anyways who brings packsac into movie theater, me i only bring my wallet duh.
Just one thing to say, for thoses of you who think the charter of right apply only to the governement you are greatly mistaken.
It actually make no sense at all to apply only to the gov.
It apply to :
– Any group or organism
– Any private enterprise
– Any service, public or private
– Any governemental organisation
ONLY EXCEPTIONS
-Federal institutions like federal public functions, the banks, telecom enterprises and the transports industries.
That is for canada. Not sure how it apply for the States.
online hindi movies
big all type
How to watch a movie
My suggestions:
1) ignore anything american post-2001 – there is so much other good media don’t bother rooting through the endless torrent of pressurized sewage.
2) torrents, emule, megaupload – you can barely find a review for a movie on google without tripping over 50 pirated copies of it
3) projector, decent speakers, marijuana – it’s not about screen size or HD, it’s about allowing yourself to be enraptured by art
And the worst part is that I teach ‘media ethics’ at a local university….
who’s the real criminal
I agree that something has to be done about piracy however I wonder who the real thieves are. Movie ticket prices and the outrageous prices of drinks and food at the theatre are what’s really robbing us. Cinema Guzzo also uses the piracy bag checks to actually see if you are sneaking in food as well.