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Rogers Implements New Approach On Failed DNS Lookups

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Friday July 18, 2008

Several people have written to note that Rogers appears to have adopted a new approach for failed DNS lookups (ie. instances where the domain name does not resolve).  Users are now directed to a Rogers-sponsored page that includes links to Rogers content, paid search results, and additional search results generated by Yahoo!  Rogers includes an explanation that states:

These search results were provided because the domain name you entered into the address bar is either improperly formatted, currently unavailable, nonexistent, or part of a key word search. Rogers Supported Search Results is a service designed to enhance your web surfing experience by eliminating many of the error pages you encounter as you surf.

While some people will not like this service, note that Rogers does give users the option of opting-out.

Update: Please read the many comments that identify troubling issues with Rogers' decision and the shortcomings of the opt-out approach. 

Comments (204)add comment

fedge said:

...
I'm glad they offer an opt-out. It's OK when a gateway service like AOL does custom error pages but when an ISP does it they give out the impression that they are like an AOL model, which they are not, regardless how they'd like to be perceived. Personally, when surfing, I want the basic actual 404 error page, not a sugar-coated explanation as if I'm a toddler.
July 18, 2008

Stephanie said:

...
I'm not in a Rogers area, so this doesn't affect me directly. But from my past experience being forced to use IE at work, I dislike this type of "service" a lot. When I mistype a URL, I want to just easily correct it in the address bar and try again. These custom pages replace the address with their own and then I have to completely re-type the corrected URL to continue.
July 18, 2008

LU said:

No permanent opt-out!
Why do companies do this? There is no permanent way to opt-out. Opting out preferences are stored in a cookie, and if you clear your cookies like many people do then those stupid redirect pages will reappear and you will have to opt out each time.
July 18, 2008

a guest said:

...
It's much worse than that. If you are trying to connect to a private network where the entries are not registered via a DNS you can no longer do this. They lost my business and I am sure they will lose many other people.
July 18, 2008

Mark said:

...
There isn't really an opt out. If you do they still take you to a page on their server, but instead of the one with the ads it's one that looks like all they did was copy and paste the error message from IE into an HTML page. Give me a real opt out option Rogers! And not a cookie based one either!
July 18, 2008

Exploder said:

^ please explain
I don't understand that ^. If you put in an IP like [ link ]' target='_blank'>link ] then you are going to get that IP. If you put in something that needs DNS, then you either need your own local DNS to catch it first, or it has to pass on to your ISP's DNS, which must catch it, or finally there is no resolution. Rogers can't be catching resolvable queries. This can only be for dead end failures.

EG. My work uses FTP from home office to small company office. We have no registered name, and a dynamic IP. We do the login by [ link ]' target='_blank'>link ] style numeric IP, and it changes every so often, so we have to fix the IP in our FTP logins. There is no DNS involved, because the URL is an IP. Rogers can't be blocking that kind of thing, or the entire net would fail for direct IP accesses.

So what are you talking about?

On another note, a better opt-out plan would be to offer an alternate IP for the primary DNS, that points at a server that will not do the redirection. That way it wouldn't be cookies dependant, it would just be a proper part of the network topology.
July 18, 2008

Exploder said:

OOPS
OOPS, the blog here changed my examples. I tried to show "h t t p : / / 192 . 168 . 0 . 1" minus the spaces. The point being an actual final numeric IP used as a URL, not a name that needs DNS resolution.
July 18, 2008

Ah? said:

Remember Sitefinder of Verisign?
FAIL.

There was Sitefinder of Verisign, and people started to look for ways to alter DNS servers so that they return NXDOMAIN if they receive Sitefinder IPs from upstream nameservers.

There are MANY applications that require domains to NOT EXIST, why is Rogers messing up with the DNS?

I won't tell that this allows Rogers to steal cookies of a site that became temporarily unavailable for one reason or another.
July 18, 2008

Grant Bowering said:

...
To be honest, that seems like a step towards a business model that does not include net-neutrality; if they prevent you from reaching a particular IP, their DNS just turns you to the Rogers page, so not only to they not provide you with the internet service you are requesting, they also get you onto a page from which they can skim all sorts of revenue.
Personally I use OpenDNS for lookups anyway, no matter what ISP I'm accessing at the time. If net neutrality goes the way the providers want it, I'm sure OpenDNS will be the first thing to be blacked out.
July 18, 2008

Daryl said:

Opt-Out, not really.
The Opt-Out feature is simply a cookie... I want my entire account opted out so any browser in my household doesn't have to be force fed their illegitimate advertising. Do I not pay Rogers enough on a monthly basis as it is? Now they have to profit off my DNS errors?
July 18, 2008

a guest said:

Thread on dslreports
Thread on dslreports:

[ link ]
July 18, 2008

NHaimes said:

Open DNS
This is why you should not rely on your ISP to resolve DNS queries. Open DSN: [ link ] is safer and more reliable. Simply enter the following addresses into the 'Primary' and 'Secondary' DNS server fields in your routers Internet or WAN configuration: 208.67.222.222 & 208.67.220.220
July 18, 2008

Yatt^ said:

OPENDNS
OPENDNS - 208.67.222.222 & 208.67.220.220
July 18, 2008

a guest said:

Proper opt-out, NOT COOKIES
This is what Wikipedia says:

EarthLink - EarthLink redirects nonexistent hostnames to www.earthlink-help.net, a site similar in functionality and purpose as Site Finder. EarthLink customers can opt out of this service by using alternate unsupported DNS servers provided by the company.

This is the PROPER opt-out, NOT COOKIES.
July 18, 2008

Stephen said:

Stop!
STOP BREAKING THE INTERNET.
July 19, 2008

a guest said:

opting out still seeing rogers hosted pa
wow thats lame the opt out brings you to an internet explorer dns page but its still hosted by rogers [ link ] and still allows you to opt back into seeing rogers ads. When do we draw the line and say enough is enough?
July 19, 2008

a guest said:

...
When is ROGERS going to start revenue sharing with rights holders to whom can be displayed through this method?
July 19, 2008

k3nt9 said:

GG rogers
First throttling the internetz instead of upgrading and now abusing your power to bring crappy aol like content to consumers and get payed for it... It sure must suck to live on the east side of canada and have to put up with BELL/rogers.
I am so glad the worst thing the ISPs in Alberta do is implement caps they do not enforce.
Of course i would gladly give up the duopoly of stagnant growth for verizon fios mmmmmmmz real broadband, like that which i had before shaw bought out my local cable company and turned it to a downgrade overcharge system.

Still i am glad i live somewhere where teksavy is always a option since telus does not abuse their power and throttle third party ISPs.
July 19, 2008

John said:

...
Complaint letter emailed. I suggest all other Rogers customers do the same.
July 19, 2008

Joe Raby said:

This breaks Address-bar Autosearch
This completely breaks the Autosearch feature that web browsers have had since IE3 and Netscape 4.

You can no longer use the ? format search in your Address Bar, even if you opt out.

I have 30+ business clients that use a web app that I created that takes advantage of this feature, and it's now broken. Now I'm considering moving them all off of Rogers. These are not just individuals I'm talking about either - they are whole companies, each with multiple employees and systems.

The default search behaviour of Autosearch is to use Live Search, but they filter a very specific URL paramter to redirect it to their own website.

The URL looks like this: [ link ]

If you change 1 single letter in the src=IE-Address parameter, it won't redirect.

This is VERY SPECIFIC filtering they're doing here, and this can be taken as evidence that they want to steal search shares away from Live Search, because Microsoft is partnered with Bell - Rogers' competitor.
July 19, 2008

Chris said:

Breaking my browser...
I phoned and complained to Rogers and got themm to open an official complaint. It sounds like support wasn't aware of this change and told me they started getting calls sometime yesterday.. My problem with it is if I used to type in an incorrect name then when I got an error my browser's default search engine would then look up the address (in my case google) and provide me with the proper links.. I don't want Rogers money grab search page poping up I want my google one. When I opted out all I got was the stupid www20.search.rogers.com/not_found page which stops the feature of my browser using the default search engine to help me out.

That said I was told rogers was working on fixing this issue.. Though maybe I will just change my DNS server in my router.
July 19, 2008

Mark said:

...
1. I just called Rogers and registered a support ticket on this issue. It took about 10 minutes for the technician to enter the details while I waited. I plan to follow up with the support case.
2. I plan to send a complaint letter via e-mail.
3. I am seriously considering changing ISP over this issue.
July 19, 2008

Ryan Nicolson said:

MTS does this too
It looks like MTS does the same thing here except they are not using a cookie for the opt out. I registered through their site and it looks like it works for all my computers
July 19, 2008

Simon said:

Opt-out is a sham
Hi Michael

Please consider modifying your orginal article to reflect that the opt-out doesn't restore things to the internet standards - it simply sends the user to a fake Internet Explorer 404 page (regardless of what browser actually being used). The interception process is still taking place.

This is disgraceful behaviour on the part of Rogers.
July 19, 2008

legend said:

iPhone too!
This silly re-directing is not isolated to computers. They have broken the internet even on the iphone
[ link ]
July 19, 2008

Anon said:

Complain to Rogers
How to complain to Rogers if Customer Service is not solving your problem:

[ link ]

Quote (caps emphasis mine):

If you are unhappy with Rogers, please forward your complaints to Rogers executives directly. This will ensure your comments are heard and taken into consideration for future policy changes.

Mail a formal letter to:

The Office of the President
Rogers Cablesystems - Rogers Yahoo! HiSpeed Internet
855 York Mills Rd
Don Mills, Ontario
M3B 1Z1

You can use this address also to complain about the performance issues and other problems that you cannot get resolved through customer service channels.

When writing, to ensure that you are listened to, explain your issue carefully, directly and as simply as you can. DON'T RANT. I am sure they ignore rants!

Probably like a resume ... YOU HAVE NO MORE THAN A MINUTE'S READING TIME to make an impression that they will want to read on and treat your complaint seriously. RANTS ARE TOO HARD TO READ."
July 19, 2008

Anthony said:

Intranet broken
It goes further than a broken DNS lookup!!!
I can't access the other computers on my home network using the hostname. I have a webserver i use for coldfusion development and I can't access it over my home network, http://hostname
I am redirected to the rogers search page before it has time to load! F!F!F!
This is a crisis for me!!!
July 19, 2008

Ian said:

Get around it
- Rogers are doing this by rewriting NXDOMAIN responses on-the-fly: the signal a DNS server uses to tell you that a domain you've requested does not exist. This means if you change your DNS server, you'll still be effected. This is a serious violation of net neutrality.

- "Opting out" does not change this behaviour. They still redirect your browser into thinking it has accessed a legitimate webpage. This breaks at least one obvious feature: your browser will now cache an entry in history for every invalid or misspelled URL you access. Many more software packages rely on accurate NXDOMAIN responses.

- If you're savvy, you can get around Rogers' DNS redirection by using dnsmasq's "bogus-nxdomain" feature. dnsmasq is an open source dns proxy server. Rogers' servers are 8.15.7.107, 63.251.179.17 and 65.200.200.47.

Using DD-WRT firmware on a Linksys WRT54GL is an easy way to get this working, since dnsmasq comes with DD-WRT.

DD-WRT: [ link ]
Linksys WRT54GL: [ link ]
dnsmasq: [ link ]
July 19, 2008

Stop! as well said:

Pic
You, and others, should get a kick out of this:

[ link ]

Kind of fits here too.
July 19, 2008

Ian said:

They outsource this to americans.
Rogers are outsourcing this to an American company called Paxfire. The servers are in America, too.

PIPEDA? They're sending all your accidental or mis-typed traffic to a US company who make no guarantees about what they'll do with that information. The servers are in the US, too. Traceroute the IPs I posted earlier.

[ link ]

Q: What kind of reaction should I expect from my end users?

A: Generally speaking, users like the relevant results which come from Yahoo!, a respected search provider. What feedback you do receive typically will come from a small group of highly technical users. Even that feedback tends to fall away after just a few weeksas they get used to the new behavior.

...wow. Brutal.
July 19, 2008

Yatti said:

OpenDNS\\Rogers DNS
I use OpenDNS... Also I noticed aswell, while testing my DNS with doxpara.com test thingy that Rogers DNS is susceptible to spoofing etc..Everything comes from the same port.. OpenDNS came up clean... (OpenDNS generates revenue the same way with a search page aswell).. But id rather they make money then Rogers..
July 20, 2008

Alpain said:

Open DNS
Ya, OpenDNS as NHaimes and other mentioned, sure it gives you a custom error screen when you go to a dead domain name, but at least its a service that appears to work better than an ISP dns server..

July 20, 2008

Siliticx said:

Digged
[ link ]
July 20, 2008

WDM said:

Alternatives
There are alternatives one can use - especially atractive if supporting commercial customers. Most ISP's use a caching DNS server to resolve domains rather than an authoritative one that actually serves the domains information. Anyone can run a caching DNS server. Grab a cheap machine from walmart - doesn't need a lot of horsepower, memory or drive space, or recycle an older computer - even an old K6-2 will do. Install Linux or BSD (OpenBSD is my preference for it's security) and setup your own DNS server. Not only will it eliminate this sort of thing but will probably be faster as well. Lots of tutorials exist but for those who want a book buide about the best on the marked is the DNS book from O'Reilly.

Happy resolving!
July 20, 2008

CharlesF said:

Other DNS servers
I got tired of DNS problems with my ISP (which never occur occording to them - one tech told me they don't use DNS!) so I configured my systems to use alternate DNS servers.
Reliable ones seem to be:

University of California at Berkeley
Stanford University
M.I.T.
University of Waterloo
Dalhousie University

Plus a few research facilities with DNS servers. All are more reliable than most ISP machines.
July 20, 2008

a guest said:

Kevin Dean
Opting out is useless for anything other than visiting web sites. This new \"feature\" of Rogers totally trashed my VPN connection; I was no longer able to access servers in my domain because the attempts to find them failed.

More correctly, attempts to find them \"succeeded\" by returning the Rogers\' hosts instead of my own. For performance purposes, my VPN has \"Use default gateway\" turned off (why go across the Internet to my domain just to go back onto the Internet?), which means that all DNS lookups go across the Internet first before falling back to the VPN connection. Naturally, the fallback never took place.

I love DD-WRT. Thank you, Rogers, for wasting an hour and a half of my very valuable time.
July 20, 2008

Kevin Dean said:

An open letter to Rogers
Thank you for the changes you have recently made to your DNS services.

Thank you for redirecting all failed lookups to your own servers (8.15.7.107, 63.251.179.17, and 65.200.200.47 in case you don't know what I'm talking about).

Thank you for pretending that there is no protocol on the Internet other than HTTP.

Thank you for the damage this "default address" service does to certain telecommuters like myself who need access to their corporate networks.

Thank you for letting me think for nearly an hour that my computer had been hacked, because those addresses made no sense except as a hostile attempt to redirect my VPN traffic.

Thank you for the time I had to spend digging around the Internet to learn what you had done.

Thank you for justifying the time and effort I spent installing DD-WRT on my router so that I could work around your "helpful" feature.

Thank you for the support calls my office is going to field from other telecommuting colleagues who will have the same problems.

Thank you for the fact that most of those colleagues, who have never even heard of DD-WRT or dnsmasq bogus-nxdomain settings, are going to have to spend a great deal of their time working around your "helpful" feature.

Thank you for a meaningless opt-out feature, one that "fixes" HTTP, but does nothing to fix any other protocol.

Thank you for changing the way I see the ISP marketplace in Canada. For years, as a technically savvy member of my family and circle of friends, I have consistently steered others your way when they ask "Bell or Rogers?" because Bell has consistently and repeatedly treated its members like children. Now, all I can say is "choose your poison, I have no opinion".

Thank you for wasting my time on this problem.

Thank you, in advance, for the utter hopelessness I will feel when this note generates an automated response, an ignorant reply, and complete corporate indifference.
July 20, 2008

daniel said:

...
I am looking around their stupid pages and I don't see opt out.

What nobody seems to notice is tell Google Rogers is stealing their revenue. Try this example1.google.com. Those are yahoo ads on Google subdomain that's hijacked. I smell lawsuit.
July 20, 2008

Holy Molie said:

Re Open Letter (Bomb)
Thanks for an excellent letter Kevin. You have satirically captured many of our legitimate gripes and complaints with Rogers.

They are rapidly moving into an era of corporate impunity ... regrettably, my letters to them have never resulted in productive replies, so I have begun to copy the CRTC on all my communications to Rogers ... you might wish to do so also.

I have also threatened non-payment for their services until I have had a chance to speak to a senior manager in customer service, technical support or management. This has worked occasionally, but never for corporate "direction" issues like this re-direction scheme, unfortunately.

Many ISPs in North America seem to think they own the pipeline, but fail to realize they only were given stewardship of the system and a chance to augment it to their profit. Now they arrogantly screw with the basic functioning and radically liberating and creative advances that net neutrality have fostered! They steal a buck here, there and everywhere, while they can - without a thought to future profits and possibilities - if they became a part of the internet revolution instead of rapacious bastards who cripple and bomb the road to the future.

There certainly are some savvy posters in this thread ... technically competent and informed folks. What will Rogers do when they use their knowledge to start crippling Rogers systems with the internet equivalent of "letter bombs"?? The technical expertise existent among Canadians on the web versus a few pigeon-holed techies at Rogers is laughable. They prove their stupidity with their heavy-handed attempts to rob and pillage at every turn and their feeble attempts don't go unnoticed for even 24 hours.

Witness the iPhone debacle.
This redirecting scamola.
User fees, throttling, data caps, rigged contracts, locking provisions, encroachment from service provider to content distributor ... the conflicts of interest are HUGE! But as one of the Tri-Opoly in this country, they are going to try to get away with whatever they can, future benefits and opportunity be damned.

Poor old Ted Rogers is gonna die, not physically of course ... it just turns out that the magnifying glass we all have, thanks to his participation in expanding the web is going to burn a nasty hole into his world. Business 101 says "Don't bite the hand that feeds you" ... well, Rogers has munched their way to most people's elbow. The feeding frenzy is going to come to an end - soon.

Thanks for listening to and reading my rant ... sometimes I just muse along and type ...
Like .... wow ... only 3 identifiable servers handle all the misdirected URL traffic? Wow .. what if tens, hundreds or thousands of thousands of unresolvable URL requests got pumped to those new "money making" Rogers server addys? JUST A QUESTION. I mean, nobody is getting to the point that they really want to tango with Rogers are they?

Or, are they????

I stand back, look and wonder where we'll be in 5 years ... gonna be fun! And I will be sure to say ....

Holy Molie
July 20, 2008

mbiggs said:

iPhone scam
With the iPhone launch in Canada, Rogers cashed in on a lot of new subscribers to a very expensive data plan. Now every mistyped DNS request makes you download a bunch of images, gouging you for more data. Just another way they're screwing their customers...

Mr. Geist, the "opt-out" option is absolutely false; please remove or modify that statement in your post. When you "opt out", Rogers still poisons your DNS requests, and tries to *pretend* they have not changed anything. This does not solve the problem for all the people running VPNs or other Internet applications that are now broken because Rogers' DNS behaves incorrectly.

I wish the government would step in to defend Canada's participation in an open and unfiltered Internet!! Companies must not be allowed to manipulate our communication channels!
July 21, 2008

Carl said:

Open DNS
"While some people will not like this service, note that Rogers does give users the option of opting-out."

Wrong. You fail at the Internet.

Open DNS is faster and more reliable. Everyone should use it. The article simply shines a light on how few people know anything about technology.
July 21, 2008

Tomas said:

ICANN
I know my comment is late in the game, but when VeriSign did this 5 years ago, it seriously pissed off ICANN, so file a complaint with them and they just may deal with Rogers themselves
July 21, 2008

Dan said:

Search from address bar
As I agree with every other complaint on here regarding net neutrality etc., I am most inconvenienced by this because I do most of my searches from the address bar. I do not like the google toolbar installed on my computers, and I have specifically changed my failed search provider to google. I have now switched to a free DNS server, but this is annoying because if that DNS server was to go down they have no accountability to me as I am not PAYING THEM. Also, for those people who don't really understand these things, if they call Rogers and they are told to change their DNS settings, what happens when they start having problems with the 3rd party DNS server? Floods of calls to Rogers with Internet problems? Will the Rogers tech support really find the source of the problem quickly? No, it will be a really long phone call with a bunch of dead end troubleshooting until someone remembers the user changed their DNS server in their router or computer.
July 21, 2008

WTL said:

Call
I think the best thing people can do is to call in to Rogers and complain at length about how it should be opt-in, not opt-out. By typing up their phones with requests for help about this it may move them to do something. ... probably not, but what the heck?
July 21, 2008

VancouverDave said:

It wasn\'t that long ago...
Anyone here remember the negative billing opt-out scam that Rogers was slapped down for a few years back? Apparently, Rogers management doesn't recall the outcome of that exercise.
Everybody write your MP and remind them.
July 21, 2008

Todd said:

Accidental denial of service attack on R
I occasionally do some security testing with computers on my LAN at home and had some interesting results over the weekend before I was aware of what Rogers had done. I was using a product called DoSHTTP, a copy can be found here: [ link ] When I pointed the tool at a machine on my network and set it to run, I eventually noticed that I was not attacking the machine on my private network but instead was attacking the Rogers search server. I have since discontinued this testing, but I am curious as to what the legal implications of this might be. Since my DoS session was targeted at one of my computers, but Rogers gave back bad DNS info that sent the traffic to their server, it does not seem like I could be found responsible. Just something to think about.
July 21, 2008

Dave said:

\"Net Neutrality\"
Remembered Digg'ed article / video a while back...
[ link ]
It's starting. Going to get Rogers on phone to inquire.
July 21, 2008

Mune said:

...
Kevin Dean: Good letter, but let me step out on a limb here and guess what the answer will be.

"You're welcome!"
July 21, 2008

Sean said:

DNS-Hijacking
I will be letting Roger's know, via phone, email, and in writing, that this is completely unacceptable.

I wonder if my company's IT support department will send Rogers a bill for all the VPN problems this is causing? I will be encouraging them to do so.

Next up is figuring out how to complain to the CRTC.
July 21, 2008

Brian said:

Broken VPN
As a business with a website, I see two issues.

The first is how this breaks VPN clients. Rogers is returning their IP addresses for my private servers when connected via VPN.

The second is that Rogers is generating revenue from typos on my domain. My domain, is *My Domain*, if a customer mistypes www as ww or wwww, Rogers serves up ads and gets paid. If there's money being made on my Domain, I want it. Do I have sue them to collect that revenue?
July 21, 2008

Dave said:

\"Net Neutrality\" Part 2
Wow... Holy Molie's rant and Kevin Dean letter is dead on.
I did call Rogers. I had to go through technical support for internet (because, if you wait for an option that can get you to a "general" inquiry, you'll get their wireless division...hmmm iPhone G3 issues?) and requested to talk to Office of the President Representative. What an eye opener.
Now, I’m a pretty easy going guy and I understand that these guy’s, at least the front line support people, have to take the major fury of the general public but the “supposed” guy’s who are representatives need to sit with the customer support group and take lessons…in short… brutal!
My original inquiry (which I also cc’ed Rogers privacy officer) was…
“Hello,
Being an entrepreneur in the web development field and having experience with major companies that have very profound presences on the web, I've come across a simple article that has peaked my curiosity into acting by putting forth this email to your company regarding its current and future stance on "net neutrality". The article/video can be found at [ link ]. I know that the comments of those portrayed is purely subjective (based in Europe as well), the idea though, is plain and simple. Are internet corporations planning to restrict that, which by its nature, was designed for FREE exchange of knowledge and information?
Now, being a person who makes their living by providing business and technical services to those who want to improve or create a presence for themselves on the web, this type is information is, to put it plainly, disturbing.
With Rogers being the industry leader in Canada in providing internet services, I would like to inquire on your company’s current and future stance on the topic of "Net Neutrality". Are there currently future plans of restricting users on a subscription basis to major websites or services?
My name and information are available for contact as stated above. Your comments and corporate stance on this issue would be appreciated. I am also including a copy of this comment and emailing your privacy officer as well regarding this topic.
Thank you for your time and patience regarding this inquiry.
David”
So the reply I got back directed me to the Office of the President Representative for a person who could address my issue. Now, I had not acted upon this for a month until I started to experience the “DNS slip” and thought, wow, this is it! They’ve gone and done it! Not necessarily the “subscription” service as mentioned in video but more like send to Rogers own service which we are “paying” for.
So I finally get to the Office of the President Representative and I detailed my concerns (read my original email to him as he did not have it available :oP ) and detailed my concerns as well with the “DNS slip”. I know these representatives are, in general, not to hard core tech savvy but, with me being on hold for almost 10 min., try to get your background stuff…you know I’m coming…you have my account and my issues…do 5 min. of homework! In short, the Office of the President Representative conveyed 2 main points, regarding the “DNS slip”, and I’m literally quoting…
1) “…We can do what we want to our network…”
2) “…We don't have to consult the public. It's our network...”
Hmmm…how do you respond to that? I was dumbfounded! Have they not learned any lessons from past experiences (See Holy Molie's comments)? As for where they are going for the future, that response was, (paraphrasing)… you’ll know once you hear it in the news…So much for “Net Neutrality”.
Now, I’m a Rogers subscriber and literally dish out over $150 a month to pay for their services and there are probably a very large group of people who do the same and this is what the Office of the President Representative wants to convey? You pay us and you get what we want to give you?
This has got to stop. I need their service to get my job done but being a prisoner to their whims is not what I pay for. I think this will spread and bite them back as did the iPhone pricing debacle. Make your voice heard people…CRTC (which is crashing as I speak), your MP and even your local news…who knows...slow news day…may make a nice tech tidbit…I am!
Dave…

July 21, 2008

Jason said:

Rogers......
Rogers has informed their telephone support agents that they will be disciplined if they suggest alternate DNS servers, so the 'opt out' is only available to very net-savvy types and the folks they tell.

What I suggest doing is everyone walk their less tech-savvy friends through configuring opendns or other public DNS servers (alot of major american universities have them as were mentioned in other posts) and just go around the Rogers garbage-page.
July 21, 2008

Mune said:

.
"will spread and bite them back as did the iPhone pricing debacle"

you think that wasn't the whole plan from the beginning?

Step 1: Announce horrible iphone plans
Step 2: Allow internet rage to bring in free iphone publicity from every major news outlet in canada
Step 3: Announce a great (albeit temporary) iphone plan at the last minute and within a day everyone who was complaining is now praising Rogers as heroes
Step 4: Lock thousands more customers into 3 year contracts than they would have without the internet rage, right before new competition moves in
Step 5: Profit!
July 21, 2008

rek said:

alternative
TekSavvy: [ link ]

Say goodbye to Rogers forever.
July 21, 2008

Dave said:

Point Taken
Good point Mune...reminds me of South Park - Underpants Gnomes
1) Steal Underpants
2) ???
3) Profit
but messing with a service you already have vs. a new product, a little different...but you hit it on the head, it's all about the $$$ whether it's the contract or advertising, it's all gravy.
July 21, 2008

Promateus said:

VeriSign has patented this technique
As Ah! has reported, their was a major uproar when NSI/Verisign used a similar technique to "acquire all yet to be registered domain name" which is essentially what this is an equivalent to. The sitefinder saga was a very charged political issue because it was happening while ICANN did not really want to be challenged as an entity on antitrust charges. Also, Verisign wanted to have permanent (or at least mid-term) renewal of their monopoly on .com, .org and .net. Anyways, the last chapter of this saga was that VeriSign chose to not use the "service" anymore and filed for a patent. Which they just did obtain.

[ link ]

If Rogers did that they are in for a friendly court encounter with VeriSign, not your average broke end-user. Anyway, i would hope that ICANN would step in and not let VeriSign privately enforce DNS/Domain Name policy. Rogers might be setiing up a battle here that it did not very well anticipated. If it (Rogers) get stuck between VeriSign, ICANN, and political manoeuvering over ICANN's relationship with USG (through the JPA) and its potential as a regulatory body on DNS-related stuff, then Rogers will find its stunt not so well thought off. Even if this service could evade VeriSign's patent terms, and be novel, Rogers is still pursuing a dangerous game here. I almost hope they keep at it.
July 21, 2008

john said:

ok. they really suck now
Ok so first they drop newsgroups.
then they throttle badwidth.
Now they are re-writing DNS protocols..... (all those messy errors were degrading the customers "experience")
What's next?
- no web surfing (the web is too dangerous)
- no e-mail service (customers don't really use that, AND it cost money to run)
- an extra fee to receive text messages (you gotta move ALL that data!!)
- extra fees for using any bandwidth whatsoever.
- an extra fee for establishing a connection using your modem.

These guys are ridiculous. I called and the support team said that only 2% of people use their DNS service!! LoL

.....so I dropped them.

Funny part is, the call that they undoubtedly recorded, were it to be analyzed by management, would still not lead them to determined why I dropped them. Some American firm talked them into something, and all they know is that they will get paid because people will be furiously clicking links from their search page!! Better than printing money!!!
short term thinking. My $50/month will need a lot of sustained clicking to compensate for.
Oh well. They are clearly geniuses. They will do the right thing :)

July 21, 2008

john said:

Man are these guys smart!
Ok so first they drop newsgroups.
then they throttle badwidth.
Now they are re-writing DNS protocols..... (all those messy errors were degrading the customers "experience")
What's next?
- no web surfing (the web is too dangerous)
- no e-mail service (customers don't really use that, AND it cost money to run)
- an extra fee to receive text messages (you gotta move ALL that data!!)
- extra fees for using any bandwidth whatsoever.
- an extra fee for establishing a connection using your modem.


These guys are ridiculous. I called and the support team said that only 2% of people use their DNS service!! LoL

.....so I dropped them.

Funny part is, the call that they undoubtedly recorded, were it to be analyzed by management, would still not lead them to determined why I dropped them. Some American firm talked them into something, and all they know is that they will get paid because people will be furiously clicking links from their search page!! Better than printing money!!!
short term thinking. My $50/month will need a lot of sustained clicking to compensate for.
Oh well. They are clearly geniuses. They will do the right thing :)
July 21, 2008

john said:

sry for double post
Can I blame that on rogers too :)
July 21, 2008

Parkerjon said:

VPN Problems Caused by this issue
I found some VB code that, in conjunction with hard coding the DNS settings in to a VPN connection, allows DNS lookups to work properly:

[ link ]

It changes the order of DNS servers to be the VPN connection's settings first.

BTW: I had an on-line chat session with a Rogers' Grunt and they are now telling people to use an Open DNS service. I guess they'll be providing no services soon as you can't rely on their SMTP: you have to use a company like DYNDNS.com to route outbound on a different port. The newsgroups went first......

JP
July 21, 2008

Corey said:

Opt-Out Crap
I would almost be willing to accept this horrible opt-out option, if it actually existed.

All the opt-out does is show you rogers fake 'ie page not found' page. It's still being hosted by rogers and does not allow the browser to make the decision.

I can't stand they are the only option. They are slowly taking the internet away while slowly charging me more.
July 21, 2008

Corey said:

ugg
Just to add to my last post. For about a week I've been having problems reaching gmail and using the firefox search box (google). I just switched to Open DNS and the problem is magically fixed.

This is another major reason that these types of 'services' bother me. We have no idea what other things they may be breaking by tampering.
July 21, 2008

Richard said:

complain...
FOR CANADIAN ROGERS CUSTOMERS who are bothered by this
file a complaint at the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services Inc. (CCTS)
[ link ]
July 21, 2008

rogersblows said:

theysuck
if rogers employees are being advised of discipline for suggesting workarounds, rather than showing all of your non-tech friends how to set up opendns, all non-tech savy people should get together and file complaints in person at any and all rogers outlets.

if they want to make money off suckers .... make them work for it. show up at a rogers building.. send in your letters.. make your phone calls.. keep them busy!
July 22, 2008

Blaise Alleyne said:

OpenDNS Can Be Configured For Default DN
I think there's a way to disable the search page with OpenDNS... I was having trouble with it for a while, but I basically turned off all content filtering settings, proxy settings, etc... *something* worked!
July 22, 2008

john said:

Alternative dns
For those who suggest some university DNS alternatives, can you please post a location where these IP's are listed (or the IP's themselves.
Also, are these DNS servers designated as "public"? In other words, if everybody drops rogers crap servers and start using these university servers, will the universities lock them down?
Any references would be a great help. OpenDNS is better than rogers, but I need a DNS server that is reliable, unpoisoned, AND a DNS server that returns a proper 404 error when a site does not exist (this used to be not too much to ask, but recently everyone wants to sell 404 traffic.....sign...)

cheers,
john
July 22, 2008

mike said:

rogers dns hijack
This goes beyond web traffic. If you use ping, telnet, ftp, ssh or other internet applications and mis-type the host name, rogers will return a false result, instead of an invalid host message.
If I try to ping someserver.mydomain.com, Rogers DNS service returns the IP address of their search page, claiming that THEIR server is part of my domain.

I am going to try to follow this up with Rogers, starting with a letter to their legal department, as they are returning a rogers IP address masquerading as a server on a domain I own.

I have no idea if this sort of subdomain hijacking is legal or not, but I want to see what their response is.

If you have a subdomain, you may want to contact them as well, and ask them to stop masqeruading as servers in your domain.

Their mailing address is:
Rogers Corporate,
333 Bloor Street East, 7th Floor
Toronto, Ontario,
M4W 1G9

Mike

July 22, 2008

protogenes said:

Can we fight this?
Is there any organized effort to fight back, instead of hundred of individual calls that Rogers will ignore anyway?
July 22, 2008

Holy Molie said:

Letters Sent!!
Hello all!

Well, Rogers was unsympathetic when I called to complain about their hijacking and redirection of failed DNS look-ups to their private "for profit" server page which purports to be a "service". I don't want it, don't need it, and it is breaking many people's VPNs, sub-domains and other protocols. Their attitude is:
Its their network.
Its their traffic to handle as they see fit.
If we don't like it, we can find work-arounds, but of course they will not support them.

So, I thought it was letter time! Turns out the CRTC will NOT handle complaints related to the Internet - go figure! Rogers just leased a billion dollars of bandwidth from the CRTC, but they don't want to deal with or regulate Rogers' behaviour. They suggested the CCTS, the Industry Association for complaints (read "lapdog"). I also thought ICANN might be interested to know about the games Rogers is playing with OUR data streams.

So, this went to the CCTS and ICANN, for what its worth ....

Rogers, Canada's largest ISP/Registrar has recently begun to re-direct failed DNS look-up traffic to their OWN servers, purporting to be providing a "service" to customers.

I believe this constitutes a Fraudulent Transfer of DNS requests. Their purported "service" offers an opt-out, but this is cookie-based and of no use for other users than HTTP protocols. Rogers' actions have crippled customer systems such as Virtual Private Networks and their responses to customer complaints have been typically dismissive and arrogant. They advised by phone that they "own the network" and can do as they wish with failed DNS look-ups. This is unacceptable!

I respectfully request that you investigate this abuse.
If one uses ping, telnet, ftp, ssh or other internet protocols and miss-types the host name, Rogers will return a false result (their "for-profit", search assist page on THEIR OWN server!), instead of an invalid host message (404). Simply put, Rogers is stealing and misdirecting traffic intended for other domains.

You can find a recent article and customer reactions on Dr. Michael Geist's website. Dr. Geist is a noted author and Canadian expert in IT law. Please see the following link for more details regarding this serious abuse by Rogers: [ link ]

Please advise if you will be taking action with regard to these concerns and thank you kindly for your assistance, in advance.

****

I'll advise if I get any response, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

Holy Molie
July 22, 2008

Kevin Dean said:

Rogers\' response to my open letter
Here's the "ignorant reply" I alluded to in my open letter:

Dear Kevin Dean,

Thank you for your email.

We understand your frustration and apologize for any inconvenience.

As our intention is to always improve the level of service we provide,
we thank you for providing us with the details of your issues with our
"Supported Search Results". By reviewing your email and the details of
your account, we can identify areas for future improvement. We have
forwarded your comments to the appropriate department.

We again thank you for the information you have provided and apologize
for any inconvenience that you may have experienced.

If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service,
please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed
below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663.

Regards,
Shoban S.
Rogers Hi-Speed Internet
Electronic Support Group
July 22, 2008

Sally said:

DNS hijack
Phone call to Rogers customer service:

Phone call was laughable. We had a huge thunderstorm here and Rogers lost all power to their servers......(either that or someone was running a dns attack test for work and 'oops' it got redirected :-))
Poor guy was 'Er - I can't pull up your account right now"..... "I didn't ask you to! I asked what you intend to do about compensating me for your reduced service"....."Errrrr, I'm not sure".....etc etc.

Emailed to Rogers.

"I am expecting a rebate on my normal billing until you resume normal DNS service. I use my internet access approximately 90% for work. You very effectively stopped all VPNs working with your DNS hijacking, with no notification. When I called Support, I was expecting to be assured that you would provide an alternate DNS server that would allow VPNs to work asap...instead I was told to switch to OpenDns (which you don''t, of course, support). Since you have reduced your service level to me - effectively reducing your usefulness to me for 90% of my usage, I expect a reduction in my cost, commensurate to the harm you have caused, effective July 19th, 2008 and continuing until you restart providing the service you agreed to and I pay for.

Please advise within 24 hrs what your intentions are on this matter."

Sure it won't do any good. Although I'm pretty sure we have a legal leg to stand on that they provide an alternate DNS server we can use. Whether OpenDns is better or not isn't the point. They are NOT going to be allowed to get away with this. I'm sick of their reduced service and raised rates.
July 22, 2008

Holy Molie said:

DNS hijack Sally and Suffer !
You go Girl!
Smart of you to send a time limit .. let us know their response, if any.
Nice succinct message defining your concerns...
Tons of us have made "new-age enterprises" that rely on VPNs, and Rogers just killed them without regard or notice to our concerns, business models or customer needs. Very callous and wrong-headed!

They ARE internet service Providers .... they should Provide, as licensed and mandated by law. They have never been given hijacking privileges for their leased access to the Internet Pipelines.

We all need to remember (unlike Rogers Management) that they DO NOT OWN the network, they are leasing it under strict conditions, allowed to expand and enhance it (under strict conditions), but NEVER / NEVER did they ever get the prerogative to mess with Sweet Sally or the rest of us! Legal claims and/or complaints to law enforcement may not be far off! The CRTC will not investigate internet claims of wrongdoing. The CCTS is an "Industry association" to investigate complaints, and since there are only 3 major ISPs, the CCTS is pretty well stacked with biased agents.

We might have to call the OPP, or Ghostbusters!

What else can I say, but ....

Holy Molie!, Bye Bye!

July 23, 2008

Martin Laplante said:

Timing couldn\'t be worse
On July 7, Dan Kaminsky announced that he had found a major security vulnerability that affected DNS servers throughout the world and allowed almost all of them to be hijacked. All major DNS software vendors had been informed and on that day all of them had patches. Attacks on DNS were expected to start within a month. As pointed out by Yatti, the DNS servers operated by Rogers were still not fixed at the time that Rogers kept their network operations people busy bringing out this "service". That tells you something about poor priorities. Since the very dangerous exploit would have symptoms very similar to what Rogers brought out, the immediate reaction was that Rogers DNS had been compromised by malicious hackers. A more responsible management would have postponed implementation of this feature until the security crisis had been solved.
July 23, 2008

Kevin Dean said:

A message from Vint Cerf to the telcos
Check this out:

[ link ]
July 23, 2008

mbiggs said:

...
The CBC has picked up the story somewhat:
[ link ]

I'm impressed with the CBC lately, that it has been recognizing some of our consumer plight against the monopolies that control our communication channels.... Hopefully this puts some pressure on Rogers to give us our fair and open Internet back!
July 23, 2008

Sally said:

DNS hijack - response
As requested, here is the response I got:

"Thank you for your email.

We understand your frustration and apologize for any inconvenience.

As our intention is to always improve the level of service we provide,
we thank you for providing us with the details of your issues with our
"Supported Search Results". By reviewing your email and the details of
your account, we can identify areas for future improvement. We have
forwarded your comments to the appropriate department.

We again thank you for the information you have provided and apologize
for any inconvenience that you may have experienced.

If you have any further questions or comments regarding our service,
please fill out the online form on our Customer Support page listed
below or contact us by phone at 1-888-288-4663."

Had another 'lovely' phone call with their Tech support today. Told them there were 4 easy solutions to the problem..1) put the service back the way it was, 2) provide an alternate DNS server, 3) Switch to DPI equipment that can recognize VPN traffic and not break it or 4) correct the policy written that should be recognizing and excluding VPN traffic. The call ended with them telling me to take my business elsewhere. (EVER met a company that cared that little for retaining customers?). I also emailed the CBC to explain that they have NOT covered the full impact of these changes in their current story and should push it further.

On a brighter note, I now have a great bundle worked out with Bell for TV, internet and phone which will be better than I currently have and will cost me less. Won't stop me fighting the Rogers situation at all - but at least I won't be providing them with income while I do it.
Bell may/may not be any better than Rogers....but I'll give them a shot. At this point I'd give just about anyone else my business.
July 23, 2008

F. Shafique said:

Just discovered this!
I just discovered this today. I am so pissed that Rogers feels they can easily get away with this. If they really wanted to get into the business of helping people with mistyped domain names, why not put it into their Rogers toolbar, or the other Rogers software that gets installed from the CD?
And this opt-out approach is total B.S.! Even there, with a little extra effort, they could have made a solution that would really allow us each subscriber to opt-out of this bogus name resolution of a service.
July 24, 2008

Dara said:

what a load of...
RUBBISH!!!!! I’ve been seeing this and have been too busy to dig deeper until now - pissed off at Rogers is an understatement ... ethical ISPs please step forward; you may find yourselves some new customers who will pay you for an internet connection. All you have to do is give us one and promise not to invade our privacy, change the way our computers work or do anything else that makes you money based on our standard use of your service. If you want to please ask us up front for consent and allow us to say no thank you and leave things just as they are. It's pretty simple really.
July 24, 2008

KarenC said:

VPN issue resolved without alternate DNS
Thank you Parkerjon for the link! The registry change fixed the issue for me. I now have name resolution when I connect to my office via VPN.

Evidence was mounting that the problem was local to my system. My office has other staff who use Rogers from their homes, yet they were able to connect without issues. As well, the Rogers change did not break name resolution for my husband when he VPNed to his office. Same household, same Rogers connection, different behaviours. I was the odd one out.

I suspect I ran into the problem because of my older network card/driver. My system (DELL D400 laptop) is at least 4 years old. The registry on my husband's system matches the pre-workaround state, but works happily.

While I am not pleased with Rogers' actions, or with the time I spent investigating this, I'm glad not to have to install an alternate DNS service on our home network.
July 24, 2008

Andrew said:

Net Neutraility
This already breaks net neutrality. And here's why. (sorry if its been mentioned above)

The redirected page has advertisements on it.
The advertisers are send the "referral url" from your browser, which is the page your viewing.
This url contains the failed domain name you are looking for.
They also get your ip.
They can now track you (nothing new here however).

Loss of privacy and data mining anyone?
July 24, 2008

Andrew said:

dnsmasq
I just want to say thanks to whomever mentioned the dnsmasq additions.

bogus-nxdomain=8.15.7.107
bogus-nxdomain=63.251.179.17
bogus-nxdomain=65.200.200.47

works like a charm, just like old times :)

Someone needs to leak some internal documents from rogers to wikileaks, and SOON.
July 24, 2008

Andrew said:

rogers
Sorry for so many posts lol, I have done a lot of reading into this issue.

It seems NOBODY remembers how rogers removed their private usenet servers, which is why I went with rogers in the first place and used quite heavily. Well, on their website for only a few hours it said that usenet was a safe-haven for child pornographers. Allegedly they removed it after so many complaints. Sound familiar? I wish I had kept a screenshot.
July 24, 2008

Fatman said:

Alternate DNS Servers
For alternate DNS servers and how to set up your computer / router see www.opendns.com . Just did mine (router) in less than 2 minutes and I ain't no tech genius, far from it. Works like a charm! Unfortunately, after changing servers if you mistype your URL you still end up with a search page of sorts, this time it's "opendns'" version. Well, one conciliation, at least it doesn't bear the name ROGERS!

July 25, 2008

Parkerjon said:

Other Alternate
Another alternate: TreeWalkDNS.com

It is a personal DNS service that automatically configures the Primary DNS setting to 127.0.0.1 so that your computer talks to the locally installed service which in turn talks to the root DNS servers. There are built in options in the service to get Root updates. I tried OpenDNS and couldn't be bothered configuring the exclusion domains (so that VPN would work). I also care to avoid the possibility that an organization would have information about my web browsing habits. That said, OpenDNS could be useful to prevent access to sites with naughty bits (or Rogers marketing) if you have children or seniors.
For one of my clients I am setting up a web-site that allows users to check what their work computer's IP address (so they can use the number rather than the name) is: and also allow them to wake it up if asleep.

JP
July 26, 2008

Kevin Dean said:

Did you know there\'s a complaint agency
Until today, I was completely unaware that the Commissioner for Complaints for Telecommunications Services even existed:

[ link ]
July 28, 2008

Parkerjon said:

Rogers Alternate DNS Server
I got the following from an anonymous but embarrassed Rogers employee. They bowed to pressure (many larger companies complaining that their remote workers were affected): and that even poor Edward was harassed.

Alternate DNS server that avoids the redirect:

altdns.rnc.net.cable.rogers.com
64.71.255.202

Apparently the engineers warned the marketing types... but the suits didn't listen.

JP
July 31, 2008

Gerrit said:

It works!
Thank you Parkerjon, that info is what we were all waiting for. In the menatime I have learned more about DNS, about dnsmasq and thus have alternatives for the future. For all of you recommending OpenDns.com, it is essentially the same as what Rogers implemented, just a different company making money off you. Instead, use the DNS servers recommended by [ link ]. Their recos worked great with dnsmasq.

It would appear that there is some hope that these companies listen, hope I am not being overly optimistic :-)
July 31, 2008

Parkerjon said:

Keep up the pressure
Other than for the hassle of updating computers and routers I would suggest that everyone using Rogers switch over to this new DNS service. In addition to the negative press the DNS redirection changes have wrought upon Rogers it would be justice if they ended up mothballing the redirection DNS service due to lack of use: or the cost of supporting those people who want to changeover to the new DNS service. In light of this: perhaps Rogers will think twice about spending money on new year-long projects that aren't related to improving speed, capacity, or reliability.

Let's just hope they designed the new server farm to handle the load.

One last word to Rogers: next time you make a change please (at least) inform your front-line support people so they can field supports calls from IT people with at least a fighting chance of not sounding like idiots.

JP
July 31, 2008

Mike said:

Alternate Rogers DNS
I used to work for a company which wrote HTML link checking software. We were totally screwed up when Network Solutions did this to the entire internet. Fortunately there was such an outcry that it only lasted a week or so. Unfortunately I doubt Rogers will be so responsive.

I've been using a different Rogers DNS server to the ones supplied by DHCP. It doesn't emit fake DNS records. I guess they don't find this feature that useful for their own systems.

The best way to make this feature go away is to make it worth
less than the revenue it generates more costs than benefits. So talk to your friendly Rogers support person about it. Often.

August 01, 2008

Chad said:

More than failed DNS
This hi-jacking goes beyond failed DNS searches. It effectively disables the auto-complete and tagging functions of Firefox. I used to be able to type in 'gmail' and it would auto-complete to www.gmail.com, since the auto-complete takes you to the first correlating address. Now it takes me to the Rogers search page. I thought I'd outsmart it by bookmarking Gmail and making a 'gmail' tag so that it should bypass a search altogether, but sure enough it still goes to Rogers search page.

Now I have to go through the pain of bypassing it. I can't "opt out" because that uses cookies and I regularly clear those. So now I have to use the OpenDNS workaround (e.g., http://serial-box.net/2008/07/...arch-page/)

I'm planning on moving soon. I think I'll look for alternative ISPs at my new house. I've had it with Rogers.
August 04, 2008

TED ROBBERS said:

DNS redirect
Whoever in marketing came up with this stupid idea should be forced to spend a year in customer support listening to our complaints (teleworking on an ipvpn). Now if only Mr. Edward really cared about improving cu cu cusstomer service.
August 05, 2008

Chrome said:

Alternate DNS works! Thank you!
Worked like a charm. Thank you for giving me my sanity back!
August 10, 2008

Ivan said:

Reason for DNS redirection...
I got off of their Live Help thing a second ago. Apparently, they're justifying this redirection through "security measures" due to the recent DNS cache poisoning issue. When I asked how it this change solved / helped this issue, I got random Wired.com links that provided no extra information. LOL
August 10, 2008

Ivan said:

Reason for DNS redirection...
Saved the chat log in case anyone wants to see it =b

Be aware that they have access to your desktop (among other things?) when you use their Windows-only live support. Thank you Virtual Machines! ;) (had some NDA'd stuff on my regular Windows desktop =b)
August 10, 2008

Shawn said:

Blocking access to my website
The Rogers DNS search "feature" is blocking access to my registered domain.

My website is hosted on a third party, 24/7 server, with a static IP. I can always access the site immediately via IP address.

I get little traffic to my website, its mainly just to hold a photo gallery for friends and thats about it.

Some time in mid-july, I started getting the rogers search page in place of my website. Previous to that the page resolved fine, though it took about 5 seconds to load on the first attempt that day.

When the rogers page showed up I tried running an nslookup on my domain, it returned in under a second with the correct IP for my site.

Right after I pinged my site by name and got the IP of 8.15.7.107,
plus the info claiming that my domain was a subdomain of rogers.

Is rogers effectively blocking access to low-traffic websites?

Throwing up a "page not found search" for non-existent sites is one thing, blocking access to an active site is another.
August 12, 2008

Shawn said:

its getting worse
Now they are messing with nslookup as well.
I did an nslookup on my site today and it immediately came back with their search server's ip, plus two other entries for the same name.

Then I did a lookup on "its getting worse", here's the result.

shawn$ nslookup
> its getting worse
Server: 64.71.255.198
Address: 64.71.255.198#53

Name: its
Address: 8.15.7.107
Name: its
Address: 63.251.179.17
Name: its
Address: 65.200.200.47
August 13, 2008

Leighton said:

Class Action Lawsuit
Hi,

I'm thinking class action lawsuit. I wonder if there are any grounds
August 29, 2008

Maureen said:

Boycott Rogers-Owned Publications!
Well, like the rest of you Rogers refused to help me out on this one. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place because I hate Bell even more than Rogers and am reluctant to switch.

So here's what I did: I cancelled my subscriptions to both Macleans and Flare accompanied by letters directed to each office of the president.

In the letters I detailed the issue with the search page, and stated that if I was going to have to pay to look at ads for Rogers publications, I no longer wanted to pay to recieve them. I told them this was my last resort after Rogers refused to restore my original DNS settings.

We'll see if they respond. I urge all of you to boycott the Rogers-owned publications for which we're having ads shoved down our throats. I won't buy another until this stupid error page is removed from my machine.

Cheers,
Maureen.
September 17, 2008

Terry said:

Need more competition
What we need are competitions, but of course Bell is screwing other smaller ISPs right now.

It's like oil companies, the damn telecommunications companies (Bell + Rogers + Telus) are cutting deals and screwing everyone on both Internet and Cellphone plans and contracts.

Bad/expensive service = less audience / unpredictable service = company unwilling to develop new solution/products.

Seriously they are holding Canada back, Rogers/Bell (and Telus for Cellphones) must die.

September 19, 2008

Brian said:

GrR
I have just recently returned from enjoying Bell's "Nexxia" DSL in Ontario to Roger's cable internet in Newfoundland.

What I left was a disaster: Watching Youtube or downloading Solaris would lead to throttling. The actual ISP's service continues to be great: but everything downstream would often be unusable.
I return to highly compressed digital TV stations, wherein technology seems to have degraded quality; constant dropouts in image and audio on the HD channels; a notice that my bundled services will no longer be without an extended contract; and DNS injections.

There is no win - Even to jump ship to Bell out of spite seems ridiculous: They took over Aliant this spring, and have mis-billed roughly half the months so far. The initial package had all the nifto goods; internet, radio, TV, etc. on the phone: but appearantly 'was a mistake', and they were quickly retracted. Basic text and a couple hundred daytime minutes now.

Quality is rapidly degrading and the marketplace is a mess. The service is poor, the services are declining, and there is no appearant end nor oversight. Canada's once proud innovations in communication history are being eroded: these two companies are a national embarassment.
October 06, 2008

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January 17, 2009

Ivan said:

SP3 might fix it
I've been using xp sp3 for a while with a rogers-free address bar experience. Last night I had to re-image my os partitiion to an xp sp2 image because it had an application I needed to use. When I typed in words to search for in the address bar of my taskbar the rogers search page opened up in firefox. I couldn't fix it, and so went back to my sp3 image and all is well again. It may have something to do with the fact that microsoft had to change (for legal reason, i believe) how the address bar is implemented in the taskbar for sp3.
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March 27, 2009

anon said:

it's not simply an incorrect web address
if the rogers redirect was initiated by a mis-spelled or inaccurate web address they would simply be replacing the 404 with their own search engine.

however it seems that the redirect is less obvious than that. sometimes a properly typed address redirects, sometimes it doesn't.

for example, in the past when i've typed a standard professional web address i get redirected. then after a while i try again and it comes up. i also notice that when i do a google search for the same site and click the "cached" link instead i get the cached information and (again sometimes, not every time) when i click on the real link from inside the cached page, it connects.

so i'm tempted to conjecture that aside from being a simple money earner for rogers (which i'm sure it is), this is also a tracking device to determine the web habits of individual users. once logged and redirected as a 404 the site becomes available again after several attempts, and the "user information" has been stored.

needless to say it's completely irritating and time-wasting when people (like rogers) insert themselves unnecessarily in the middle of otherwise efficient systems.

April 05, 2009

anon said:

it's not simply an incorrect web address
if the rogers redirect was initiated by a mis-spelled or inaccurate web address they would simply be replacing the 404 with their own search engine.

however it seems that the redirect is less obvious than that. sometimes a properly typed address redirects, sometimes it doesn't.

for example, in the past when i've typed a standard professional web address i get redirected. then after a while i try again and it comes up. i also notice that when i do a google search for the same site and click the "cached" link instead i get the cached information and (again sometimes, not every time) when i click on the real link from inside the cached page, it connects.

so i'm tempted to conjecture that aside from being a simple money earner for rogers (which i'm sure it is), this is also a tracking device to determine the web habits of individual users. once logged and redirected as a 404 the site becomes available again after several attempts, and the "user information" has been stored.

needless to say it's completely irritating and time-wasting when people (like rogers) insert themselves unnecessarily in the middle of otherwise efficient systems. perhaps there's some kind of natural law of harassment at work here. I note with amusement - the ads for weight loss and penis enlargement which now precede my post to this thread.
April 05, 2009

Canayjun said:

Still a problem
The Rogers troubleshooting page does include instructions now of how to change the DNS servers on your router or PC network settings but they don't offer any alternate DNS addresses to use, you have to search for those yourself. Rogers also very clearly states changing from their "select DNS automatically" to manually inputting your own, means they will not provide tech support. I believe that this has caused me to experience degraded service over the past few months
The OpenDNS ones 208.67.222.222 & 208.67.220.220 are reliable, but they still redirect errors to their own custom search page, so that really is not the best alternative - not neutral in itself. I think one of the University servers is the best bet - unless someone has a better solution.
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Roger's you gatta stop whatever it is.
This guys are breaking my VPN services for the end clients.Any DNS lookup queries for the intranet domain which should go through the VPN tunnel, for some reason it passes over to the physical connection and this stupid Roger's return them with the bogus IP address, which is basically their junk yard page addresses. First of all this doesnt makes sense to me, why Rogers want to break he RFC's that has to say that a DNS server should not answer for a unknown zone. If its a recursive query it should pass on to other DNS server and finally I expect it to fail in the case Intranet name lookup over the internet. So My question " Why these guys are upto breaking the RFC's, while their idea helps no one here".
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Probably Also a Privacy Complaint
What really happens is that we type a URL into our favorite browser, perhaps from faulty fingers such as largerthing.ca when we really should have typed largerthing.on.ca.
The rogers dns server that we were given during our boot-up dhcp finds that it is an unknown name, and instead of responding with "NXDOMAIN", responds with the address 8.15.7.107.
Our web browser makes a TCP connection to 8.15.7.107 thinking it is the correct address for largerthing.ca and hands it the expected host name "Host: largerthing.ca". This web server responds with a 404 Not Found page that contains javascript that sends the browser on to http://www20.search.rogers.com...erthing.ca (yuck).
So, to explain my Privacy Complaint title, Rogers has tricked my web browser into telling a server in Los Angeles that I'm interested in making a body part bigger.
I don't think this redirection is a good idea. On several levels.
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