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The ACTA Internet Chapter: Putting the Pieces Together

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Tuesday November 03, 2009
The Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement negotiations continue in a few hours as Seoul, Korea plays host to the latest round of talks.  The governments have posted the meeting agenda, which unsurprisingly focuses on the issue of Internet enforcement [UPDATE 11/4: Post on discussions for day two of ACTA talks, including the criminal enforcement provisions][UPDATE 11/5: Post on discussions for day three on transparency].  The United States has drafted the chapter under enormous secrecy, with selected groups granted access under strict non-disclosure agreements and other countries (including Canada) given physical, watermarked copies designed to guard against leaks.

Despite the efforts to combat leaks, information on the Internet chapter has begun to emerge (just as they did with the other elements of the treaty). [Update 11/6: Source document now posted]  Sources say that the draft text, modeled on the U.S.-South Korea free trade agreement, focuses on following five issues:

1.   Baseline obligations inspired by Article 41 of the TRIPs which focuses on the enforcement of intellectual property.

2.   A requirement to establish third-party liability for copyright infringement.

3.   Restrictions on limitations to 3rd party liability (ie. limited safe harbour rules for ISPs).  For example, in order for ISPs to qualify for a safe harbour, they would be required establish policies to deter unauthorized storage and transmission of IP infringing content.  Provisions are modeled under the U.S.-Korea Free Trade Agreement, namely Article 18.10.30.  They include policies to terminate subscribers in appropriate circumstances.  Notice-and-takedown, which is not currently the law in Canada nor a requirement under WIPO, would also be an ACTA requirement.

4.   Anti-circumvention legislation that establishes a WIPO+ model by adopting both the WIPO Internet Treaties and the language currently found in U.S. free trade agreements that go beyond the WIPO treaty requirements.  For example, the U.S.-South Korea free trade agreement specifies the permitted exceptions to anti-circumvention rules.  These follow the DMCA model (reverse engineering, computer testing, privacy, etc.) and do not include a fair use/fair dealing exception.  Moreover, the free trade agreement clauses also include a requirement to ban the distribution of circumvention devices.  The current draft does not include any obligation to ensure interoperability of DRM.

5.   Rights Management provisions, also modeled on U.S. free trade treaty language.

If accurate (and these provisions are consistent with the U.S. approach for the past few years in bilateral trade negotiations) the combined effect of these provisions would dramatically reshape Canadian copyright law and to eliminate sovereign choice on domestic copyright policy.  Having just concluded a national copyright consultation, these issues were at the heart of thousands of submissions.  If Canada agrees to these ACTA terms, flexibility in WIPO implementation (as envisioned by the treaty) would be lost and Canada would be forced to implement a host of new reforms (this is precisely what U.S. lobbyists have said they would like to see happen).  In other words, the very notion of a made-in-Canada approach to copyright would be gone.

The Internet chapter raises two additional issues.  On the international front, it provides firm confirmation that ACTA is not a counterfeiting treaty, but a copyright treaty.  These provisions involve copyright policy as no reasonable definition of counterfeiting would include these kinds of provisions.  On the domestic front, it raises serious questions about the Canadian negotiation mandate.  Negotiations from Foreign Affairs are typically constrained by either domestic law, a bill before the House of Commons, or the negotiation mandate letter.  Since these provisions dramatically exceed current Canadian law and are not found in any bill presently before the House, Canadians should be asking whether the negotiation mandate letter has envisioned such dramatic changes to domestic copyright law.  When combined with the other chapters that include statutory damages, search and seizure powers for border guards, anti-camcording rules, and mandatory disclosure of personal information requirements, it is clear that there is no bigger IP issue today than the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement being negotiated behind closed doors this week in Korea.

Update: Further coverage from IDG and Numerama

Update II: InternetNZ issues a press release expressing alarm, while EFF says the leaks "confirm everything that we feared about the secret ACTA negotiations." Electronic Frontiers Australia provides an Australian perspective on the ACTA dangers.

Update III: There are additional articles and postings from around the world (Germany, Italy, Sweden, UK, New Zealand, the Netherlands, U.S., Germany, Italy) as well as coverage from some of the most popular websites (Gizmodo, ReadWriteWeb, TorrentFreak, BoingBoing, Slashdot).

Update IV: See additional posts on Day two of the ACTA talks (Criminal provisions) and Day three (transparency).

Comments (389)add comment

Wayne said:

If the leaks are accurate

The treaty cannot be signed by Canada, or if it is signed, it would not necessarily be legal here. You have to wonder what the Canadian negotiators are thinking, if they are in agreement with this? And if they aren't in agreement with this, why are they not informing their employers, the citizens of Canada?
November 03, 2009

Maupassant said:

...
This closes the loop on government by the corporations. Using this mechanism, corporations can clearly pass laws on the qt, completely bypassing parliament/congress or any form of democratic rule. The original legal mistake was granting corporations the rights of citizens. Now *only* corporations have the rights of citizens.
November 03, 2009

maebnoom said:

Maupassant nailed it.
And this is downright scary.
November 03, 2009

KBSoftware said:

...
The U.S. wants to keep this a "secret" because they know it's wrong.

Remember all those science fiction books/TV show and movies that paint a very bleak future for the average person, well here another big push towards making fiction into reality.
November 03, 2009

Brendan said:

We must fight this. Loud, Angry, and Physically if needed.
I'd like to start hearing some very vocal objection from our elected representation. This cannot be allowed to happen.

Reading through hundreds (of the thousands) of CopyCon submissions, it is clear that Canadian citizens do not want (or need) any such laws. Adopting laws at the whim of private interests is not a good move, socially. Adopting laws drafted by *foreign* private interests is downright insulting and outrageous.
November 03, 2009

Known Brave said:

DMCA
And again, we see that our nice governments are elected to protect corporations and multinationals, against us, taxpaying lowlifes.

With religion, we were born with the original sin. With laws such as these we will all be born with the original infraction.

And we vote for these guys?
November 03, 2009

UncleCounterfeiting said:

Clear but unclear
Having done DMCA takedowns in the past, the part described as anti-counterfeiting is actually the DRM part. Copyright takedown notices often word unauthorized copies as counterfeits, even in a digital sense.

However to the general populace (eg politicians), it will be presented as preventing counterfeit pet food and milk products from china, and this will likely be glossed over.

Yes, companies do need their trademarks and copyrights respected, but it should be done and paid for by the copyright and trademark owners. Not the government. If people won't buy their goods at the prices they demand they should go out of business. I want my music, movies and games via digital download, and a way to ensure I can still play then 30 years from now. I know Louis Vuitton's legitimate purses are still usable in 30 years, so please, the issue is being presented as "all DRMless content is counterfeit"
November 03, 2009

Jacob Bierma said:

Whiners!
Don't be so stupid all "And again, we see that our nice governments are elected to protect corporations and multinationals, against us, taxpaying lowlifes." No, sucker. Governements are there to protect the rights of each and every one. You just do not have the right to duplicate art without permission. It is property afterall, made by artists who live on it. That you guys have no money to spend is not the fault of the corporations or multinationals. Let alone of the artists who's art you are duplicating without permission or paying revenues.

Also, these laws are not there to protect the multinationals and such, but actually the small companies and artists who are going to be sold online and who just need the money to survive. Nobody should be mad because you copied a cd from a guy with 24 houses and 3 rollses. Well, I would not.

If you want to have fun for free, go take a shower and find yourself a nice girlfriend.
November 03, 2009

M said:

Transparency
It is nice to see Transparency on the agenda for Friday, assuming that means what I hope it does.
November 03, 2009

Dan O'Leary said:

Not Whiners!
Your statement "You just do not have the right to duplicate art without permission." Says everything abut the ignorance of those who profess to say that everyone who copies is stealing... I copy! Yep I copy! Do you know why? Of course you don't, otherwise you would not be calling us whiners.

I copy every digital media I purchase so that I have the original if damage occurs. I copy it all to my internal only NAS, so that I can watch or listen to anytime I wish. This is not theft, but just being smart.

I for one, hope that if something like this ever comes to pass, that we can get a massive amount of people around the world to have a protest where we all attempt to circumvent these draconian DRM crap.
November 03, 2009

Known Brave said:

Whiner
"Nobody should be mad because you copied a cd from a guy with 24 houses and 3 rollses. Well, I would not."

With laws like these, you do that, you're a criminal.

You record a movie in a theatre, you're a criminal.

A dentist, you play music in your waiting room, you have to pay royalties or be a criminal.

You use a song from a published singer as background music in your YouTube video, you're a criminal.

You record a TV show without paying royalties, you're a criminal.

They won't stop.

There are sufficient laws, right now to protect artists. Adding more and more laws will simply make more criminals and artists won't get anything more because the public will resent the laws and circumvent them just to protest.

If you do not feel protected enough, get a box of Trojans. Nice girlfriend optional.
November 03, 2009

Brendan said:

@ Jacob Bierma - Re: Whiners!
"Governments are there to protect the rights of each and every one."
Well then why are they putting the interests of the relatively small number of business owners ahead of the vast majority of individual citizens? If everybody's rights are to be protected, those of the many should certainly have some bearing above those of the few.

"You just do not have the right to duplicate art without permission. It is property afterall, made by artists who live on it."
Actually, I do have that right in many cases -- fair use, for example. Don't make overbroad claims beyond the *limited* rights granted by copyright.

No, music and movies are NOT property. They are ideas, or art. There is no physical manifestion of the movie itself. There is a plastic disc which is sold at high margin as a convenient means of distributing that movie/music, however. Unfortunately, the internet has provided much more efficient means of distribution without the need for expensive plastic discs. This should be celebrated, not reprimanded.

"That you guys have no money to spend is not the fault of the corporations or multinationals. Let alone of the artists who's art you are duplicating without permission or paying revenues."
Actually, I do have lots of money to put towards art and culture. In order to decide where that money should go, though, it is necessary for me to experience as much art as possible. I download movies and music by the bucketloads, and then decide which artists I feel deserve my dollars. I am offering free advertising directly to my own wallet. You would think the creators would be happy about this.

Don't get greedy with copyright, or we as a society just might decide to reduce the rights granted so far.
November 03, 2009

b said:

...
The other issue that people gloss over frequently is that the DMCA-like provisions essentially strip all rights from the consumer. They allow "fair use" only in name only, but practically speaking it doesn't exist. By granting the rights holder control over the media, and then banning the distribution of circumvention devices, you make it so "fair use" is disallowed and at the sole discretion of the rights holder (who has shown to have zero motivation to allow it). If you can't break the anti-circumvention measures, you cannot ever exercise your fair use rights.
November 03, 2009

Me said:

To Jacob:
Idealistically I agree with who you say the law should protect, but you are sadly mistaken if you think any of this is to protect the "small companies". Regardless of whether such a treaty is good or bad law, The fact that this is done with such a high degree of secrecy, and right after "consulting" Canadians on what SOCIETY as a whole wants, and having foreign corporate interests help draft said treaty should tip you off about who this is played out for. If this is for small artists and companies, don't you think the Canadian gov't would consult THEM on what they think is best?? In short, your words might have some merit in a utopia, but to call people "Whiners" because of such a gross subversion of democracy (of which this is only one of many) shows you to be nearsighted and uninformed about the issue.

And just to clear up some of your more ignorant comments: no, not all art is 'property'; yes, there are many legal instances allowing for making copies; and if "duplicating art" is bad, it should be irrelevant of how rich or poor an artist is. In your view "stealing from artists" as you call it is ok if people have lots of money? What kind of idiotic view is that?

In short, become a little more informed before spewing off and insulting people. You know old Abe's saying, "better to remain silent and be thought a fool ..."
November 03, 2009

Geof said:

...
"companies do need their trademarks and copyrights respected"

Companies don't need anything. People need things. Companies are nothing more than tools we create in order to benefit actual human beings. When you talk about the needs of companies, you are treating them as ends, not as means. Then we - human beings - become the means to satisfy their needs.

Trademark law was NOT created for the benefit of companies. It was created for the benefit of consumers. Similarly, the first modern copyright act, the Statute of Anne, was created "for the encouragement of learning."

Your claim should be something more like, "citizens need dependable trademarks so they know what they are getting, and effective copyright that promotes the creation and access to culture and knowledge."
November 03, 2009

kh said:

free
I borrow books and CDs and DVDs from my local library legally and for free all the time. I can borrow them from friends etc. I can look at them without the artists or the corporations getting anything. What is this you can't get stuff for free business?
November 03, 2009

Laurel L. Russwurm said:

!!!
Artists don't benefit from copyright, big corporations do. You know, corporations like Disney who have done their best to control the artists who made it into the monstrous corporate entity they are today. It's long been rumored that "Uncle Walt" took advantage of his original artist partner, and Walt had to be legally compelled to credit his artists. He thought the only name on the movies should be his. Not because of his artistic talent and input (which dropped off dramatically), but because he owned the company and had the power. But my very favorite is the Peggy Lee story.

Peggy Lee wrote and sang music for "Lady and The Tramp". When Disney started making mountains of moolah from new technologies like Video, Peggy Lee had the audacity to sue and won the right to be paid royalties. What did Disney do? They made a point of not re-releasing Lady and the Tramp until AFTER Ms. Lee passed away. What we call copyright today is about corporate control. "Paying the artists" has NEVER been on the Disney agenda, and they are leading the charge...

Ask Matt Frewer if he's happy that nobody in the world gets to see him when he was a hot young hunk playing Edison Carter on "Max Headroom" which is not for sale on DVD and will probably be lost to the world forever due to the draconian copyright laws in place NOW. Most artists don't WANT their work locked up and lost to the sum of human cuture. Artists create to share with audiences. Of course Max Headroom's content predicted a lot of the things that are happening right now. If this keeps up, we'll be living in Idiocracy. (See the movie. It's scary.)

The worst of it is, audiences will be criminalized for home use and governments will be paying to enforce copyright that isn't.
November 03, 2009

Average Joe said:

...
Art is already free. It's been free since the dawn of mankind. Seriously. Ask any artist. It's already free. It will always be free. Art is about freedom. The freedom to inspire. Everything created today is attributed a copyright, or a government-enforced monopoly. It will not last because art is more powerful than Big Content.
November 03, 2009

Joe Q Public said:

...
Obviously Jacob is a corporate shill. It's just too bad Obama is as bought and sold as the rest of the politicians on the planet.
November 03, 2009

Adolf said:

World Agreements
I for one love agreements which put you puny citizens back under the thumb of your corporate dictators!

YOU WILL OBEY!

Jacob, you may have an Armband to demonstrate that you are on the proper side of this argument.
November 03, 2009

Some Guy said:

...
Right well I hope they realize this will most likely only increase the amount of people who currently break these 'laws'. The more things that become caged away from sharing and use without paying a fee each time....the more people will continue to take them without paying. This is also an ironic thing for a Government to do whilst also claiming they have Freedom on their country's turf.
November 03, 2009

Skyspy247 said:

Motivations
Do you think any for-profit group cares about the rights of any content producer (artist, musician, coder)?

All they want is to maximize their profits and if it takes confusing the copyright / counterfeit / bootlegging issues to get governments to pass laws favoring their bottom lines then, that's what gets gets done.

@ Jacob

"If you want to have fun for free, go take a shower and find yourself a nice girlfriend."

In my experience, one of those is, the other, most definitely, is not.

November 03, 2009

ahaha said:

jus' add more fuel to the fire!
The companies are just doing this because the world is changing. They want to stop the change and grow as fast as they can to offset it. But it just won't happen: we're entering a change where people are getting more intelligent, and choosing to be wiser and good, and more caring and loving towards each other. The companies know they're going down, and are doing anything they can to strenghten their hand over the people. But its a fools dream: greedy and lustful. It'll just anger people too, once the governments enter this law, proving they're lined in the company pockets! The governments need a change too, so quickly join the companies, and bring on the fuel, lets grow the fire in the people stronger! get em' revved - to wallop you!

www.LittleScroll.com
November 03, 2009

Taziuk said:

@ Jacob Bierma - Re: Whiners!
Art is all about copying and re-working previous material.

Disney is one of the most egregious "thieves" in your universe. The Jungle Book? Stolen from Rudyard Kipling. Pinnochio? Stolen from Carlo Collodi. Cinderella? Stolen from Charles Perrault. It goes on and on.

The difference now is that Disney wants to lock down copyright in perpetuity, so that their older works can never go back into the Public Domain and contribute to new works and new culture.

And that is why things like ACTA must be stopped.
November 03, 2009

Joel said:

Movies and Drugs
You know, this kind of reminds me of the drug scares that permiate U.S. history. We all know that countless geneerations of getting tough on drugs has given rise to the largest prisoner per capita in the world. Kind of makes me wonder, now that drugs are loosing popularity, is this giong to be another upper class control tool? Who will be able to afford culture once O.T.A. television goes off air? How long before libraries are forced to pay special prices for their movies?

Just to point out the control some corperations have over our lives, in order to take my "Free shower", I had to get up and pay the electrical company to turn on my light, I had to walk to the shower in relative warmess, which means gas company for heating, I had to turn on the water, water company, heat the water, gas company, and finally needed to dry myself off with a towel bought at a store. This is not even mentioning the mortgage, the insurence or the property taxs. Thank god most of the utilities are still public. At least that way, some of that money makes it back into circulation. Making the bank of Canada a crown corp... best idea ever. To those Americains out there, sorry about the Federal reserve...
November 03, 2009

punditius said:

...
b said the following. I am reposting in case you didn't read it the first time. Read it now. It is exactly right.
---------------
The other issue that people gloss over frequently is that the DMCA-like provisions essentially strip all rights from the consumer. They allow "fair use" only in name only, but practically speaking it doesn't exist. By granting the rights holder control over the media, and then banning the distribution of circumvention devices, you make it so "fair use" is disallowed and at the sole discretion of the rights holder (who has shown to have zero motivation to allow it). If you can't break the anti-circumvention measures, you cannot ever exercise your fair use rights.
--------
My own comment: Copyright was enacted to encourage the production of artistic products which would in a reasonable period of time go into the public domain. Copyright periods established that the entire artistic product did not go into the public domain until the artist had a chance to make some money off of it."Fair use" established that the reasonable period was in some instances immediate.

What is happening now is that copyright is, in effect, being rewritten to be perpetual, and to have no exceptions for fair use. This is being done "under the radar," through treaties and laws which seem to address legitimate business concerns, so that citizens will not understand what they are losing.

DRM has, as a practical matter, given corporations the right to abolish fair use of their artistic products. Disney laws have made copyrights perpetual from the point of view of any living human being.
November 03, 2009

art said:

......
I run a fairly large art gallery and venue, you had better believe that artists aren't getting a cut out of this. Very few even make enough money to actually live well, let alone need laws in place to "protect them."

The poor artists argument simply doesn't work. This agreement is about holding onto a shrinking market share as smaller more nimble and dynamic companies who embrace technology and shifting paradigms in the market today. The return of vaudeville is upon us, not to sound too cliche. Artists generally make their money off of sales of original pieces, you can't copy a canvas and call it an original, simply not possible (well maybe if someone's dumb enough). Musicians make more money doing shows than they'll ever do selling CDs. It makes sense that the propagation of information (and art) will benefit those who created it. Look at graffiti artists who give their art away for free every day. Look at Banksy, his art sells for ungodly amounts of money based on the fact that he did it for free.

In short, it's a last ditch attempt to not be eaten by piranhas, the smaller dynamic companies, because the dumb lumbering beast fell into the river.
November 03, 2009

Anobe said:

If it were to be true...
It's going to be WWIII, but it won't be just countries vs. countries...it's citizens vs. corporations. Of course, that's the very last thing in our minds when it comes to this issue abroad. Then again, these implementations could be ignored just like WIPO in the past. You'll never know...
November 03, 2009

Exploder said:

Burn it down.
If our pathetic government's participation in this CRAPTA isn't enough to make you all want to burn it to the ground, then we are lost.

It's time people. Democracy was never perfect, but there used to be a smidgen of it. We have the tools to build a new direct participatory democracy, where PEOPLE actually have a voice. Delegating decisions to a few is now a complete abject and permanent failure. The few will abuse the many to their minority enrichment, and allow the real mechanisms of our society's productivity to fall into oblivion while they chase only the fast buck.

If you want to eat in the future, if you want to communicate freely, if you want anything at all, we have to burn this greed show to the ground and build something honest made truly of and for all of us.
November 03, 2009

Vic said:

Oh my!
I am eagerly waiting for the provision about fourth and fifth parties liability! The the whole population of all countries will go to jail! The countries will become just huge gulags!

Oh, wait,.. there was something like that already in the history of this civilization, wasn't it?
November 03, 2009

UncleCounterfeiting said:

Clear but unclear
Geof... ''Your claim should be something more like, "citizens need dependable trademarks so they know what they are getting, and effective copyright that promotes the creation and access to culture and knowledge."''

Yes, exactly.

What we have now is imports from asian countries that are questionable in nature (go look up the 110 Disney movies-in-a-box from asia) that the average person doesn't know, or care if it's counterfeit. The item was not made or authorized by Disney, yet carries all the Disney trademarks and is region free and is of dubious quality. Ironically region locks and CSS do nothing to prevent the purchase and import of such items which have both stripped out. This is the kind of material that ACTA rightfully prohibits in theory.

But from what's been leaked so far, suggests that fair use gets eliminated entirely.

November 03, 2009

Len Layton said:

What does it matter if you can't watch Seinfeld re-runs on YouTube?
There is a lot of noise being generated about this when all we are talking about is media corporations making their crappy products even crappier -- if none of us were allowed to watch TV anymore would we die? If copyright owners want to lock down their worthless TV shows, music recordings and movies so that no-one can see them or to make them ridiculously overpriced, then why should we care? They are just shooting themselves in the foot anyway. TV is not a human rights issue. TV is crap. Get a grip.
November 03, 2009

Kyle clements said:

the reason this is important
Len Layton said:
"What does it matter if you can't watch Seinfeld re-runs on YouTube?
... If copyright owners want to lock down their worthless TV shows, music recordings and movies so that no-one can see them or to make them ridiculously overpriced, then why should we care? They are just shooting themselves in the foot anyway. TV is not a human rights issue. TV is crap. Get a grip."

It's not about TV, its about censorship and freedom of expression.
If I say something on a youtube video, or on my website, or a blog, and someone disagrees with what I say, they can file a copyright complaint against me, and I disappear. I am silenced, my rights to expression have been stripped away under the guise of 'copyright infringement'. No evidence is needed, no trial is granted, and I am presumed to be guilty by default. The penalty for being merely accused three times is permanent isolation from a large segment of my social sphere, and an inability to promote/advertise/run my business. Unless I find the resources needed to prove my innocence.

This treaty is a legal abomination. It is a bypass of our democratic process, and a slap in the face to everyone who participated in the recent copyright consultations.
November 03, 2009

punditius said:

...
b said the following. I am reposting in case you didn't read it the first time. Read it now. It is exactly right.
---------------
The other issue that people gloss over frequently is that the DMCA-like provisions essentially strip all rights from the consumer. They allow "fair use" only in name only, but practically speaking it doesn't exist. By granting the rights holder control over the media, and then banning the distribution of circumvention devices, you make it so "fair use" is disallowed and at the sole discretion of the rights holder (who has shown to have zero motivation to allow it). If you can't break the anti-circumvention measures, you cannot ever exercise your fair use rights.
--------
My own comment: Copyright was enacted to encourage the production of artistic products which would in a reasonable period of time go into the public domain. Copyright periods established that the entire artistic product did not go into the public domain until the artist had a chance to make some money off of it."Fair use" established that the reasonable period was in some instances immediate.

What is happening now is that copyright is, in effect, being rewritten to be perpetual, and to have no exceptions for fair use. This is being done "under the radar," through treaties and laws which seem to address legitimate business concerns, so that citizens will not understand what they are losing.

DRM has, as a practical matter, given corporations the right to abolish fair use of their artistic products. Disney laws have made copyrights perpetual from the point of view of any living human being.
November 03, 2009

W00h00 said:

...
Isn't it great how people we didn't elect meet in secret... ah what's the point? The Nazis have won because people continue to vote the false, left, right paradigm.
November 03, 2009

James said:

Corporatism and Fascism
Look upp corporatism and fascism on Wikipedia, then go back and read ACTA again. Ask yourself if any of us (myslef voting in Sweden, which too is a democracy the last time I checked) asked our governments to please give up our rights in order to create a fascist state?

In hindsight it's no surprise that IFPI was formed in Italy under Moussolini. Old habits never seem to die in the copyright industry...
November 04, 2009

timleeLAND said:

...
I'm so angry I wrote a poem:

Pop. 9,888

Behold then, under varied awnings
of all stripes unfolding with whimsy
despite an August sun dawning
early over clouds acting clumsy
and uneven, a few men flock
past storefronts to just simply gawk
at the wares behind the windows.

One particular plain-spoken man
rolled his eyes about like some token
set of hills where maidens of Diane
would hunt naked using oaken
bows and arrows made from dead gods' bones
then the man took out a few stones
and threw them against the glass.

Shattering and scattering downward
as alarms sound in wild amusement
while the man smashes a foul word
through a fresh and empty arrangement
of pure space brought on by the slight
incongruity that one might
expect from living in Quicksand.
November 04, 2009

Jan said:

Missing the point
I think you are missing a very important point.

The point is in the wording "accused of" . This would spell the end of legal security and the beginning of total censorship. Everyone could be silenced by *accusing them* of breaking the law. No more freedom of speech.

In most countries this is unconstitutional.
November 04, 2009

Pierre said:

The law is only for the poor
GROUPAMA (a large French insurer) was caught in a software PIRACY case of $200m.

GROUPAMA argued that BANK SECRECY entitled it to limit the scope of Police investigations to a building that was not the place of the infraction.

And the General Prosecutor of PARIS ruled that it was perfectly legitimate:

http://remoteanything.com/archives/groupama.pdf
November 04, 2009

nwh said:

location location location
anyone know where the one in seoul is being held?
i want to go protest :D
email me plz!
natehitchcock [at] gmail [dot] com

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH!
November 04, 2009

nwh said:

location location location
anyone know where the one in seoul is being held?
i want to go protest :D
email me plz!
natehitchcock [at] gmail [dot] com

ROW ROW FIGHT THE POWAH!
November 04, 2009

luis said:

...
ACTA must be stopped.
November 04, 2009

Bill from Tennessee said:

Master of My Own Universe
And the Obama administration is pushing this? So...how is that whole "hopey-changey" thing working for YOU guys?
November 04, 2009

capsaicin said:

What might a good agreement be?
What "ought" the law and treatises say? The problem seems to stem from the present separation between the desires of the author of a work and those in control of the rights associated with it.

Suggestion:
All purchases of patents and copyright are banned. Only the author can decide on its disposition. This to include that restrictive contracts with authors are also prevented, so no more exclusive rights agreements.

That way the author really can decide how they want to utilise their work, and do it on each individual application for repeat use if it is digital in format. It's up to them to make those choices in each case.

If they want to make it clear, then there should be a method of easily adding suitable terms to the work itself. This is how the GPL can manage the desires of the writers of software by including the necessary wording in the item itself.

I really think it is the responsibility of the author to determine the distribution of their own work - and no one else's.
November 04, 2009

Benito M said:

...
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power. - Benito Mussolini
Add the words global in there and I think you have ACTA.

Special thanks to the US backers of corporate greed for forcing this affront to democracy down the throats of the World's citizens.

Seig Heil Y'all
November 04, 2009

zephyrkey said:

What about CC?
I wonder what this will do to Creative Commons content... with such draconian measures coming in, will it drive more artists towards CC and coders to GPL?
November 04, 2009

blablahbla said:

There is always a reaction
Have any of the previous laws worked or actually produced results? When the Pirate Bay was shut down, hundreds of smaller sites popped up almost instantly to replace it. Inevitably, the true enforcement of this will end up shutting down so many users -- legitimate and non-legitimate -- that high-profile sites like Youtube will lose viewership. Does anyone else realize how much money Youtube makes? Ultimately, this means corporations will not necessarily be robbing the people, but other corporations as well. Many people will not use the internet much at all, which will harm ISPs and ad companies. Many artists will move to creative commons licenses so their music gets heard. Otherwise, it won't be heard.

I think this will end up creating the new market of content without intending to do it. Every time these guys try to put a new law in place, it just gets circumvented. Draconian measures, as often as people try to pass them, don't make it out. They will always find some sympathetic judge that will rule it unconstitutional. There are ALREADY judges that find our current DRM laws unconstitutional, so the idea that this would ever be enforced is ridiculous.
November 04, 2009

Aneruism said:

Media and copyright
We have gone so long now where we realize that movies and music Albums are not worth $15 to $40 that we as a society are not turning back. If you take away every form of free medium distribution, you will not find us flocking back into stores to buy $25 DVDs or Blu-Rays that paradigm is dead. You will find us creating our own free content and enjoying the free content created by others.
November 04, 2009

NJ said:

...
donde esta documento? "If accurate" doesn't lend a lot of credibility. Are the leaks being withheld because of the document watermarking? Is it all verbal?
November 04, 2009

Brad said:

Look it up
Welcome to the beginning of the North American Union.
November 04, 2009

Democracy said:

Not quite
First, a lot of people here bring up our democracy as being a protection against these sorts of laws and treaties. You poor deluded fools. We don't live in a democracy. We live in a republic, a republic were the representatives are chosen by how much money they can accumulate to wage their campaigns and by how charismatically they can present themselves. There's no real examination of their qualifications. It might be nice if the people running for office were really put through a real hiring/qualification process before they were even presented for election. Anyway, once they're elected they'll do just as they please especially if it improves their bottom line.

Given that situation, should anyone really be surprised that the representatives take the positions espoused by the bodies that can afford to buy them?

Now, back to copying, everything on the net is not there because the copyright holder put it there. There are vast quantities of movies, music, art and literature that are there because someone other than the copyright holder put it there and they or someone else or both are making money from it's dissemination. Whether that's the minority or majority of the content on the net doesn't matter, it's just the idea that someone is making money from someone else's work that drives all this concern. If there were a perfect DRM that would let me buy a movie or a piece of music and play it from any device for the rest of time, I think I'd be pleased as punch but the copyright holders would still be concerned. As an example, the movie comanies were afraid, when VHS came out, that someone would buy a tape and then invite a friend over to watch it. They called that an "unpaid viewing" and that extends to the music in the dentist's office and the cartoon playing in the barber shop when the kids are waiting to have their hair cut and the lady that sang as she stacked products on store shelves. All unpaid viewings or hearing of someone's work.

The only thing that can be counted on is that as hard as the rights holders try to tighten the screws on the common people, the harder the common people will make it to control them. As soon as they come up with a viable DRM with good fair use provisions and price their products reasonably, there won't be the need for criminalizing every other person in the world.
November 04, 2009

Michael said:

Content has destroyed us anyways...
We have no culture. We were raised by Disney. We enjoy what they say is the top 40 list of the week. We have lost the ability to think and create on our own. All we do is share someone else's ideas. Yes, with these laws, most of us will be called criminals, we do copy everyone else, but in the end, as someone else pointed out, it will save us and force us to create again. They are just sealing their own coffin, and igniting us to fight for our lives. We don't want or need their works anymore. We have the ability to make new tools, and to simply claim the power from the minority. Every officer and soldier is a citizen, and has a family. Eventually they will have to make a decision as a human. We must all fight our own fight, and do the right thing when the time comes. Traditions of the past always die and create ground for the new. It is the genesis of life. Those that fight the truth will crash against the rocks and be scattered.
November 04, 2009

Treserious said:

this is an affront to humanity
Anyone read any Shadowrun a few years ago? corporations rule, governments are non-existent, and megacorps rule.

we need to act to prevent this atrocity.
it is an affront to human freedoms, and free speech.
November 04, 2009

Anonymoose said:

@Brendan said: We must fight this. Loud, Angry, and Physically if needed.
"Adopting laws drafted by *foreign* private interests is downright insulting and outrageous."

In an extreme view, it shows that the Canadian Government is nothing but a puppet state, casually tossing aside the 1867 BNA Act. Chief Justice Sir Edward Coke is certainly rolling over in his grave. Maybe fortunately, the Supreme Court (as it stands now) would squash it and they would have a lot to say if ever something like this did go through unabated.

Some advice for Harper and company, they should look up the meaning of "Sovereignty".
November 04, 2009

Joel said:

Internet MIGHT work
As an example of the type of control a telcom company can have on the net,

Lets take videotron for example, owned by quebecor, a media publishing company. Lets have a look at what kind of control they have over the internet.

First, the limit, 60gb a month. 10 regular dvd`s from netflix. We wont' even talk blue ray. Of course, can`t allow more then that, could bump into their videotron movie rental store sales. (That`s if you don't do anything other downloading)

Next, many quebec shows are created by Quebecor, and, oddly enough, most of these shows are only streamable on a videotron connection. But you know, that's faire, they created it, they can limite it's audience however they want.

However, if you dare downloading something that isin't videotron, and someone else has a problem with it, they will not only happily hand over your peronal information associated to your ip, but, release a statement that they fully support the actions of any lawsuites that may ensue. Oh, and don't worry about that pesky courte stuff, they won't even show up to listen to the official arguments as to why this company is trying to sue.

Now lets say, you're not happy with all these limitations. Especially the part where they automaticly bill you for over usage without notification. You want cable, but, do not want videotron. Well, tough luck, because as with other cable co's they own the coaxial line coming into your home. So no matter what happens, they still get a peice of the pie and, if they feel that their network is too congested by your none 60gb downloading, they can now, according to crtc, throttle you. P.S., good luck finding an independent cable isp in gatineau. If they do open up their networks to competition, they must be very, very small companies to be almost impossible to find. In the end, they do get to decided who can use their network and who cant.

Now, with this nice dedicated tax payer subsidized network, they add home phone service. Essentially voip, however, with dedicated pipes. Want Primus? It's got to share the main congested network. Power outages, since they have this nice reserved network, with gateways plugged directly into these power supported lines, no router to speak of, you now have reliable 911 safety. For all other voip customers, too bad.

Lastly, for our conveniance, a green box is placed at every second house. This ugly little thing makes sure the cable guy can quickly connect, or disconnect, your cable and your neighbors. A single box for the entire neighborhood in a public place? Hell no, amplifiers are too expensive. Instead it provides a young healthy dose of electromagnetic radiation to the poor sap's kids who's lawn just seem to preoccupy the space around their box. Does he even have cable at his home? No choice, you get a box.
November 04, 2009

unity100 said:

Regulations, regulations, regulations
if you americans had enough regulatory mechanisms to curb the political influence of the corporations, all this lobbying, law buying and grand betrayal wouldnt happen. some of you are STILL insistent on 'deregulation', and stuck in an 19th century capitalist mindset. this is what happens when you deregulate... allow corporations run amok... they set up lobbying and you get your butt handed over to you.
November 04, 2009

Paul Schlegel said:

...
This seems alarming to me. However, I brought it up in another forum and someone claimed that the takedown issues were "nothing to worry about" because "it's illegal to file a false takedown report...anyone doing it will find themselves in a jam in a hurry."
November 04, 2009

Sickofit said:

Who cares
They don't need to pass this crap, like >1 million a year isn't enough? Lots of people pirate stuff just because they can't afford it. Then you have people like the guys above saying "they're just trying to make a living". OK! Let's do that with everyone, "everyone has a 75,000$ ceiling for wages!"
ONLY THAT would make all this worthwhile, otherwise, the gov is just supporting the ones who have the money to make the strong-arm plays...
wtf are we gonna do about it? nothing.
But get shit for free still.
November 04, 2009

Zacqary Adam Green said:

Where's the leaked document?
Do you have a link? I want to read this thing.
November 04, 2009

Joel said:

Caped salaries
I like the idea of caped salaries. It would definitly curb many wealth concentration on many levels. Money is only a trading tool as long as it's acutally available for trade. It would have to be combined with some crazy foreigne ownsership policy and some regulations against multi national corps, othwerwise, they'll just find a border to move across and continue concentrating their wealth there. Tell me, what's the point of having multiple billions if you're only going to use one or two in your life time? What a wast of depreciation
November 04, 2009

Bitstorm said:

Computers are illegal
Did you know that a computer to properly function must make at least 2-3 copies of its software? How can it be legal to use a computer, if the bits of the software stored on its hard disk are copied into memory? And then they are copied into the processor cache memory? And then they are copied into the processor registers to be executed? Let's sue Intel and Dell and Apple and all computer manufacturers which create such intrinsically illegal devices!!!
November 04, 2009

Ozlanthos said:

Painting themselves into corners.
The point all of you noobs forget is THIS WILL ONLY APPLY TO WORKS COVERED BY COPYRIGHT OR PATENT! It amazes me that people are so easily duped sometimes! Piss you off a little and all objectivity leaks from between your ears in rage. When you were a kid, and trying to figure out what friends you wanted to hang out with, one of the ways you determined this was by how high a price to your person and reputation you would have to pay for the association. Some groups required rites of passage, others that you participate in group-think, mob-action, tribute, or sacrifice. The only way to avoid paying any of these was to deny them all.

The same concept applies here. In order to avoid paying for crap, download and consume works from people not trying to extort you for every view, game or listen. Purchase such goods only if YOU feel the artist produced something worthy of the ask-price. ie. DON'T PLAY WITH THE KIDS WHO WANT TO ASS-RAPE YOU FOR NOT PAYING THEM EVERY TIME YOU COPY, WATCH, OR LISTEN TO THEIR WORKS!!! =PROBLEM SOLVED.

Put your products out on the web. Price them fairly, make a quality product, and you won't have to worry too much about piracy.
November 04, 2009

BC said:

People still have power
People seem to forget that most of what they complain about with large corporations can be dealt with a simple old method...boycott. Wikipedia definition: A boycott is a form of consumer activism involving the act of voluntarily abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with a person, organization, or country as an expression of protest, usually for political reasons.

I could go on and on about how this could be applied in so many situations I hear/read people complaining about. In general, when it comes to these companies doing things you don't like, find out their affiliations and cut out everything you can that has anything to do with them. Don't like the way your representation in government is acting/performing, be vocal about why and make sure you vote.
Sure, it can be a little rough, you may even have to do without something you like for a while. Fact is that complaining is not going to do ANYTHING. Until all the "little guys" around the world are willing to take action and make sacrifices, things really won't change. You want to make a difference in matters like this, hit these people where it hurts...don't give them your money, don't give them your vote, and tell others what u are doing and why.
November 04, 2009

for the lulz said:

Canadians
Crazy Canadians :p
November 04, 2009

TBone said:

TBone At Large
The internet leads us to the new world order...
November 04, 2009

dave said:

some dude
If you're upset because you can no longer copy things and will have to buy them, I don't feel bad for you. Obviously someone spent money making it, and whether or not you believe it is right, that's the way society works. However, I do not believe this is the business of the government. They should stay the hell away from this. If you want to put out some DRM, fine, you deal with the market and consumer implications of it. If you want to go DRM free, you also have to deal with the implications of that.

These implications are very complex, and extend far beyond file sharing sites. They extend to people spreading good or bad word of mouth about you, and they affect customers returning or not. In no way shape or form, however, is it the governments job to enforce the business model of any business. I mean if they decide that you cannot copy it, then they should distribute it in a way that doesn't allow you to do so. If someone figures out how to break it, either release an update, or forget your precious protection. It's not the governments job to make sure the citizens are only using something as the creator of it has intended. That's ridiculous. Would you allow Ford to tell you which roads you're allowed to drive on?

Anyway, I don't believe in stealing things one ought to pay for, but I also think that the government is not here to make sure that you don't copy art or software. It's well enough to prevent bodily harm, and whatever, but making sure someone has the right intentions when they click the play button is far out of that scope of authority.
November 04, 2009

truthseeker1neo said:

nickel and dime me to death
just another piece of legislation brought about by the NWO to cause unrest with the rest of the population.
November 04, 2009

Crosbie Fitch said:

At some point
At some point everyone who believed the fairy tale that the 18th century privilege of copyright was a reward to the citizen for their creativity, will realise that it was actually the favour to the press of endorsing their de facto cartel/monopolies in exchange for the press remaining subject to the state.

It's time to realise that copyright is the name of your cultural manacles that you've been wearing with pride for far too long. ACTA is simply reinforcing their locks.

I'd stop wearing them altogether if I were you.

Abolish copyright.
November 04, 2009

Mark said:

...
And this is what our government is going to do after the copyright consultation, in spite of an absolutely overwhelming voice against prohibitions on circumventing DRM when done for otherwise legal reasons. This proposal is everything I feared would happen to copyright in Canada... and worse.
November 04, 2009

Couzin2000 said:

Not Whiners (again)
Quote:
{{{Whiner
"Nobody should be mad because you copied a cd from a guy with 24 houses and 3 rollses. Well, I would not."

With laws like these, you do that, you're a criminal.

You record a movie in a theatre, you're a criminal.

A dentist, you play music in your waiting room, you have to pay royalties or be a criminal.

You use a song from a published singer as background music in your YouTube video, you're a criminal.

You record a TV show without paying royalties, you're a criminal.

They won't stop.

There are sufficient laws, right now to protect artists. Adding more and more laws will simply make more criminals and artists won't get anything more because the public will resent the laws and circumvent them just to protest.

If you do not feel protected enough, get a box of Trojans. Nice girlfriend optional. }}}

Actually, doesn't this really say that artists will not be going towards companies to record/publish/sell their music? Artists themselves are against this - this is only the wish of huge movie and music publishers, who are in turn egged on by MPAA/RIAA and lawyers who have studies only copyright law, and have nothing else they can do to pay their increasingly large gas bills for their Visa-owned BMW.

Hopefully, artists will finally give the coup-de-grâce to companies worldwide, when they understand that this can only lead to implosion unto itself.

FREE MOVIES FREE MUSIC FREE ART IT'S MEANT TO BE
November 04, 2009

Brian from Pennsylvania said:

The Media Bubble
This treaty is just the most recent manifestation of media conglomerates being lazy. Specifically, they are unwilling to relinquish the artificially high prices they have demanded for almost a century, but without rational justification. From a lazy, greedy perspective, this is completely understandable. However, with the aid of the internet, people have realized that the value of media has been completely overinflated. For example, why is an actor's performance worth $20,000,000 if someone on Youtube is willing to entertain 60 million people for free? Why are major record labels claiming albums cost millions of dollars to produce when several hundred thousand musicians on Myspace produce music of equal or higher quality for a few hundred bucks (at most)? Why should we pay out hundreds of dollars a year for printed news material when bloggers are willing to pursue unbiased coverage for free? The Media Bubble is going to burst sooner than later.

The Media Bubble exists because media no longer have intrinsic value: 1) media are endlessly reproducible with identical high fidelity 2) there are enough people willing to make their own creative content for free that it is not economically viable to charge the prices that media conglomerates are used to. This treaty is a last-ditch effort to keep media distribution in the hands of the rich, corporate, few. They will fail because, simply, the public has learned that it can sufficiently entertain itself: anyone can now experience the fame of a movie star, rock star, Disney cartoonist, best selling author, without the overhead or distribution costs.

Thankfully, it doesn't matter whether this treaty passes or not, because it's already too late: it is not the technology or the infrastructure that is maintaining the new media movement, it is the altered mindset of ordinary people. Technology and infrastructure were necessary to catalyze the information age, but the implications for creative content will persist independently. As information grows more and more linked, no single idea will have value: its physical representation will be the only thing finite, and hence, valuable. That will be a sufficient avenue for media to be sustainable (live performances, integration with craft (merchandise), unique affectations, personal touches, etc.).

In other words, Big Media needs to catch up or go *Pop!* like weasels.


November 04, 2009

LOL said:

LOL
LOLOLOLOLOLOL we are all getting fucked up the pooper once again !!

Thank you corporate america !!
November 04, 2009

Realist said:

This is how global pulic policy is made: in secret and with no concern for totalitarianism
Wayne asked: "if [Canadian negotiators] aren't in agreement with this, why are they not informing their employers, the citizens of Canada?"

Your ideas are quaint and olde-fashioned, Wayne. These "employees" of ours can't do what you ask because the negotiations are actually clandestine operations conducted by industry. These sorts of secret negotiations only make use of the services of bought and paid for "public sector" workers. The public sector has been made meek by cushy pensions and benefits and is naturally compliant since most do not speak English as a first language (including Canada where many federal employees struggle with English since they primary language of thought is French), they have scarily large mortgages, are desperate to retain their jobs, and are in *way* over their heads on almost any issue. Critical thinkers like Professor Geist and/or his students are not eligible for public sector jobs and would quite likely not want them in any case.

With increasing digitization, the extra-legal seizure of your digital assets (family photos, banking and financial data, documents, communications) by unthinking and unaccountable "border guards" is going to prove to be very inconvenient for people. And do not expect border guards to understand why you might want to encrypt your personal information ...
November 04, 2009

loveyourgovernment said:

PLEASE HELP US STOP ALL THIS !!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
November 04, 2009

lynn said:

...
yet again another brilliant move by the Obama administration
November 04, 2009

DuddleyFuddle said:

...
I have been 'boycotting' mondo corporation for some time now. I have ditched Bell completely for Vonage for the better part of this decade. I have ditched Direct Energy, then cut off Enbridge and gone to all electric for three years. The '$40' I was paying for just being hooked up to gas more than offsets increased heating costs. I have dropped Rogers cable tv and Look tv and internet for Rogers slowest internet - 2 years now. I will be dropping Rogers altogether soon for Velcome. Rogers can come to my house and pick up their rental modem if they so wish. I'm not returning it to my local Rogers store. I have dropped my Virgin pay-as-you-go cell with a $15 topup every three months because Bell bought out Virgin and went to one month topup. Goodby Bell. I am paying down all my credit cards with the sole purpose of paying them off. I am not buying take out foods or processed foods of any kind. I am learning to prepare nutritious meals, candies, confections of my own making. I buy only micro-brewed ales. I will never buy a car again on credit. My most recent car was purchased with cash. I am making a conscious effort not to buy any product or service from any large corporation (banks, insurance co's, fast food, retailing, content provider, ISP, newspaper, utility, etc. etc) wherever possible for locally produced services and goods. I am promoting my ideas amongst friends and family with varying degrees of success. I have been feeling very good with what I'm doing.
November 04, 2009

Ouch said:

Freudian title misread
"The ACTA Internet Chapter: Putting the Feces Together"

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry....


November 04, 2009

oldpond said:

Joke
Did you know that 90% of people when their car is about to hit the ditch say, "Oh shit." The rest are from Canada. We say "Hold my beer and watch this."

I probably owe somebody money for that now.

:)
November 04, 2009

Guy said:

Google
I'd like to hear Google and Obama's take on this issue.
November 04, 2009

Me said:

To Ozlanthos
Hey 'noob', my (main) problem isn't what's in ACTA, it's the fact that it's being MADE IN SECRET WITH FOREIGN INTERVENTION. Get it? Know what sovereignty means? If our government wants to consult its own citizens on something and then make a decision in conjunction with, y'know, the people who voted them in, then I'm pretty open-minded. But making ANY treaties in secrecy from public viewing is wrong, I don't care if it's to do with jaywalking. Get it? I can't quite figure out why this simple fact escapes some people. Why not let your mechanic pick the next car you buy, he knows more about cars than you, right? He has no other vested interests, right?

Same to the rest of the shills out there. If you think your position on something is so 'right' and 'moral', then have the guts to stand behind it. Instead we get a bunch of American lobbyists hanging out in the shadows and a freaking copyright/counterfeit treaty classified as secret due to national security. What a joke. Funny, I don't remember seeing any American corporations printed on the ballot when I voted in the last federal election ...
November 04, 2009

Dustin said:

We're not going to hold them...
We're going to hang them.
November 04, 2009

Mark said:

...
I have no love for what they are doing to strip consumers of any ability to enjoy fair dealing or personal use privileges, but for people who would advocate abolishing copyright, I have but one simple question: What would you propose as an alternative, that would actually be effective in today's climate, both in terms of commercial value and in terms of what would motivate artists to continue to create?

Sure, people made creative works before copyright, but back then it was difficult for people who weren't authorized by the creator of the work to get away with it... copying was tedious, error-prone, and expensive.

Today, copying is so cheap a five-year old can do it at a push of a button.

So one might not wonder why not do away with publishers, and let everybody self-publish instead? While that's just fine and dandy, even that proposed model will not work without the protections of copyright. If a lesser known individual creates a work, and attempts to self-publish, a larger corporate entity with a wider distribution capacity could potentially take over that publishing from him, without offering the original creator any compensation. People would not directly associate the work with the lesser known individual, and would instead associate it (wrongly) with the organization that took over publishing from the creator without the creator's consent or approval. With copyright, at least the creator of the work can take some legal recourse against a company that would do this... without any copyright, exactly what would stop this from happening?
November 04, 2009

iCEkOLDsOLE said:

'the government is there to protect our rights."
The governmnet did protect our individual rights, when it was still somehow beneficial to do so. That is obviously no the case any longer. Look at the worlds current economic status, it sucks; no jobs, no money, no social services - nothing. I live in the crummy state of Virinia. I am unemployed, and facing a horrible job market I returned to college to futher my education and find a better job. I still planned to work while attending school, but there are no jobs. I reluctantly went to the swocial services office to apply for some food stamps, but because I attend an institute for higher education, the only way I am eligible for such services is to either drop out of school or work a madatory twenty hours each week. They fail to see the fact that had I been able to work twenty hours each week I would not be applying them in the first place! But, were I to drop out, I'd have no problem being given food stamps. It's a blatant policy aimed at keeping the public stupid, so they don't feel empowered to speak out against obvious disregard to individual rights.

US government officals need to be reminded that the offices they hold are an honor, not an entitlement, as is the basis for our entire democracy; we're a republic not a dictatorship. It is amazing how quickly those elected to represent us, and our opinions never seem to take a moment as ask our thoughts anymore. Giant corporations like AIG and Chase Manhatten, to name just a couple, can be total cluster-fucks, spending themselves to the point of a global finacial collapse, and then be handed free money to do it all over again - nothing more than a fatherly pat on back and a few words of encouragement for punishment! $787 billion dollars, no questions asked. Yet, I cannot find work after losing my job with a bailed out company and have no recourse or hope of any help with all the money I have paid in taxes. Social services are not free - I've paid for them for years, thinking that if god forbid I need them they'd be there. was wrong.

These new internet laws don't suprise me in the least. I wondered how long it would take for something like this to happen. Civil rights are going to be a thing of the past in ten or fifteen years, so enjoy them while you have them. Instead of the pledge of alliegance said by school children, elected officals should have to say a pledge of responsiblity and appreciation to be surving the greater good our society.
November 04, 2009

free4now said:

they want total control
Obama and his Marxist minions want more laws to control that which has grown and thrived without them. Sooner or later, there will be a "fairness" doctrine for the internet too, once they get the internet under the FCC's thumb via the so-callled "net neutrality" goal. Their true goal is control over the masses which, for now, are communicating too freely for their liking.
November 04, 2009

Thinking myself said:

Don't believe everything you watch on TV...
From Wikipedia's Climate_change_consensus page: "It seems that the debate on the authenticity of global warming and the role played by human activity is largely nonexistent among those who understand the nuances and scientific basis of long-term climate processes."

Read e.g. Wikipedia's Greenhouse_effect page if you don't believe that "Carbon dioxide is the human-produced greenhouse gas that contributes most of radiative forcing from human activity."

It is true that the sun affects earth's temperature, but that does not mean humans aren't warming our planet up in addition to that and that global warming is indeed true and action need to be taken. Don't spread the FUD. Think. We have only one planet.

Corporate control is bad and it might be true that someone might be trying to take e.g. global warming and benefit from it the wrong way. But that does not mean global warming isn't true and happening right now. Don't mix things up in your mind.
November 04, 2009

ps said:

...
copyright is a government endorsed monopoly on a certain product. it is intended to encourage innovation and the advancement of the useful arts and sciences for the benefit of society.

tell me what's more useful or beneficial to our society? the last 70 years worth of humanity's collective artistic and scientific creations available at the click of a mouse to anyone who wishes to tinker, reshape, extract, derive, learn, copy, or reinvent?

or all of it. every single last literary, musical, and artistic achievement locked in the vault of the rightsholder. available only at a price set by the whim of the rightsholder.

i'm not an advocate of an abolition on copyright. i am an advocate of *drastically* reduced durations. 5-7 years tops. i'd be happier with 2-3.

this cloak and dagger approach to solidifying the positions of multi-national publishing conglomerates over the collected treasures of humanity's artistic achievements is, simply, an outrage. it's beyond infuriating. it signifies all that is wrong with corporate greed and corrupt governments. and i'm absolutely convinced we'll see 90% of this garbage enacted in these treaties. because we're powerless to stop it.
November 04, 2009

Jay said:

Harper continues to buy American
It's not surprising that the Canadian negotiators don't seem too anxious to protect our sovereign interests. They get their direction from PM Harper who is quite happy to sellout Canada to the US at any cost.
November 04, 2009

Average Joe said:

...
Copyright lasts way too long. There are cases where a long dead artist has no living heirs but someone has to look after the estate, how about some coporate trust, sure, money can be made after all. 90 years after the art was created, 70 years after the artist has died and some corporation who "owns" the rights is making $500,000 a year licensing the work to public schools.

That's asinine. Copyright lasts too long.
November 04, 2009

Anonymous Coward said:

Public Domain
The public domain is a vital component to the arts and the various entertainments to a great many people all the world over. It's a shame that the public domain doesn't seem to have a representative at these secret talks. The public domain, you know, that collection of all our world's art and knowledge.

Just sitting there, waiting for more art and culture and entertainment and science and invention and knowledge to help it grow. Waiting to be copied. And copied. And copied. Waiting to be shared. And shared. And shared.

Good luck with trying to control the internet!
November 04, 2009

poup99 said:

...
I don't think there is any secret negotiation to enforce laws internationally to forbid the hiding of revenues from big corporation to prevent them to pay there due income taxes. There is thousand of billion of money hidden in fiscal paradises around the world. I did not see yet any government with enough ball to attack those laws, to rule the fiscal evasion in fiscal paradises. But when the people try to hide from big corporation some revenue then the secret negotiations begins. Different rules different power. It is close the time of the physical revolution by people if governments are not taking their employer seriously(We, the people, are paying for our government employees).
November 04, 2009

SteveCan said:

BOO
Barack Obscene Obama,

mmmmmmm mmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
November 04, 2009

BOBO said:

lose basic gun rights, then all other so called rights become illusions to be lost at whim
You canucks gave up your gun rights. These were basic human rights. By giving them up voluntarily you identified yourselves as little better than potential slaves to be exploited at whim by anyone. Now the exploiters have again come as mathematically certain they would. You are defenseless wimps. You deserve nothing better than slavery, serfdom, or other servitude as being defenseless you are also worthless. Until and unless you get back your gun rights, you will continue to go downhill. The hill is long and gets steeper and slipperier as you go further down. Fascism is at the bottom. And war. Then you, too, can have mournful crosses to your war dead in every town, just like Germany. For when the war comes, the exploiters will you YOU as cannon fodder to wage it.
November 04, 2009

drwiser said:

Father
Rollerball!

The movie that displays corporate powers run amuck.

Now Rollerball becomes reality. Not far until 1984 shows up.

November 04, 2009

hardtimes989 said:

1984 take over
Folks welcome to the new world order . I heard its getting really bad in the UK read some news articles they have started watching people in their own homes. starting with 200 families, security cameras in their house , they say its to make sure the children get to bed on time, have proper meals and get to school on time. Yeah right children my ass they are using this as an excuse to watch people like a 1984. Hell what do you think the obama health care plan is all about ? Common since should tell you its another government take over liek he is doing with teh internet now. He will eventually get rid of all other Private insurance etc. his plan will be the only choice after so long. and he will make it where you will have to have an RFID chip or you will not be allowed medical treatment .

Read your bible people . In the right hand or forehead, they already have the RFID chip in peoples right hand for buying drinks in night clubs in Spain . It's only a matter of time till the dollar goes completely dead , what do you think is gonna replace that dollar as the new world reserve currency ? The dollar collapse was engineered by the bankers . Their ultimate goal is to get every man,woman and child implanted with an RFID microchip to track your ever move. Its the mark of the beast Just like the bible described . and its happening right in front of our eyes
November 04, 2009

Luke H said:

Moral Panic
This seems scary. Morally deplorable!
Are we feeding a moral panic of our own? should we be?
November 04, 2009

Robert said:

Seriously?
@BOBO, @free4now, @lynn, etc.

Turn the Fox news off and think for a moment. It's the American corporatocracy that has caused this; not Obama or any of the other puppets you had a chance to "elect", nor is it Canada's preference for not flooding our country with guns (I can only imagine the mental gymnastics it took to come up with THAT one). So long as your politicians are for sale, and for so long as our politicians allow themselves to be bullied by their counterparts to the south we will see more of this.

To quote a great man, "it's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
November 04, 2009

true said:

...
The chief US negotiator for ACTA is the former Time Warner Vice President for Global Public Policy, and before that, she was a lobbyist for Ely Lilly, the pharmaceutical company.

http://www.keionline.org/blogs/2009/06/25/kira-alvarez

November 04, 2009

Matthew Skala said:

Don't feed the troll
We've got enough real problems here that it's not worth wasting attention under the bridge.
November 04, 2009

Wesley Parish said:

Cementing China's economic leadership
You realize that China, without all this hoo-haa over unenforceable copyrights and patents slowing everything down and dragging everything down, is going to be twice the economic powerhouse it was previously.

Talk about abdication - "Little Black Bag" and Angie, by Cyril Kornbluth, anyone?
November 05, 2009

TKNY said:

...
This isn't a copyright issue. More-so an angle in controlling the flow of information.
November 05, 2009

Kevbo said:

Serious Problems
Robert:

It has everything to do with the previous U.S. administration, the current one, AND the special interests that control this U.S. nation. Our founders tried so hard to avoid this scenario and the happy progressives of the early 1900's did everything they could to make sure it would all change. It's corruption like this that had our founders set up the vote of the people, the vote of the states, and the vote of the nation, and why the progressives changed that in our 17th constitutional amendment.

We have a major problem here. The internet is the ultimate example of the closest thing to a free market the world has ever seen, and look how quickly it's exploded around this planet. This is simply a way to control the masses, and it's time the masses say I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore.
November 05, 2009

erroneus said:

Obama's claim of National Security
I would like to understand what roles in National Security do the top executives of large copyright control corporations play? Some time ago was published a list of people who are instrumental in creating ACTA and a large number of them are in the business of copyright control. I would really like to understand how copyright and national security have any connection at all.
November 05, 2009

rollingeyes said:

...
...
Some time ago was published a list of people who are instrumental in creating ACTA and a large number of them are in the business of copyright control.
...

Who did you think they'd send to these trade agreement talks? Chefs? Mimes? This is like complaining that the AA meeting you attended was full of people with an alcohol problem...
November 05, 2009

TL Winslow said:

...
Bureaucrats like to create jobs for bureaucrats. So now national borders don't matter any more.
November 05, 2009

Mairead said:

If this were about protecting the artists
it would be impossible for the artist/author to assign the copyright or its benefits to any other entity. All contracts would have to have some other, less-exploitative basis.
November 05, 2009

Big Bill said:

...

While sending my position of outrage to the Senate, Congress and President Obama, I couldn't help but notice this line of BS on the White House's website: President Obama is committed to creating the most open and accessible administration in American history.

We are being lied to....again...over and over....this is not "change I can believe in".
November 05, 2009

solo miabi said:

northern New York
Many seemingly well thought-out comments here. My hope for the future is that things will always seem far worse than may be factual. Still, there is a time coming that will take many by shocked surprise. The good news is that only individuals can do anything about it.

Come, Lord Jesus.
November 05, 2009

adrix89 said:

...
Ohhhh please pass it!
It would be the last bullet the idiots will shoot themselves with
Not only will the whole world resist this and it would be impossible to implement
Free and Open source software would become the only alternative at the expense of old style copyright business models and media
Which will totally kill copyright
I bet even Bill Gates would have nightmares if they see this article
I dare them to pass this!
November 05, 2009

Razarr said:

National Security!?!
The only reason this would anything to do with national security is the fact that someone out there is posting information that the 'powers that be" do not want distributed. In other words, political dissent. Quote a politician making some asinine statement that is an obvious attempt to stomp on the rights of those who elected him...he claims your post/article/website is a copyright infringement. Boom! There goes your site. No judge, no jury. Just an accusation. Oh you want some information on medical issues that do NOT involve taking Pharmaceutical products, as in theraputic levels of vitamins/supplements, and those sites quote information/studies from the CDC or FDA or even the ACTUAL studies (not the spun conclusions) the Pharmaceutical have released...Boom! Accusation of copyright infringement because you quoted a line/paragraph from their study...Bye Bye to your site.

What better way to quell distribution of unwanted information than by claiming everything not agreeing with your view is a copyright infringement. The financial and political motivation to do so is HUGE.
November 05, 2009

Steve M. said:

Remember that Simpsons Episode?
Whenever I read these things, I'm reminded of Grandpa Simpson being hassled by lawyers for "unauthorized imitations" of Charlie Chaplin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Bouvier's_Lover#Cultural_references
November 05, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

ACTA may not be perfect
ACTA may not be perfect, but an imperfect ACTA is better than no ACTA.
The harm from current worldwide IP infringement is much greater than potential dangers of censorship.
Internet age is probably the time when we need stronger copyright laws most.
The biggest danger would be to create a general "public benefit" exception to copyright.
I hope this never happens.

As for ACTA, again, piracy must be curtailed as strictly as possible. No efficient enforcement is possible on the Internet unless all ISPs are legally required to cooperate to a certain degree with IP owners.
November 06, 2009

Dan O'Leary said:

"ACTA may not be perfect" < ?
Well, I guess you don't really understand the issues or the impact. Laws already exist to convict people of stealing, or profiting from other peoples works. Enforce these laws, INSTEAD of making fair use a crime. Like I said in an earlier post, I for one will ALWAYS makes copies of my DVDs and CDs so that I have backups. I will also place digital copies onto my MP3 player, my NAS (for streaming to my TV). This is fair use. If ACTA happens, then I will be a criminal...

For anyone who thinks who you voted for is supposed to represent you, think again, they all run for election now for one thing... $$$. The few politicians with a spine, are relegated to the side lines by corporate interests.
November 06, 2009

Tyler Pubben said:

Calm down people.
I find it hilarious that every time I come across an article on a topic such as this almost every person who responds is argumentative and belligerent. The truth of the matter is that piracy is at an all-time high and we need to find a better way to stop it or premium content will eventually become too costly to produce given reducing numbers of customers who actually buy it.

I love the idea of free music, commercial free television shows and the ability to use this media wherever and whenever I want. However as a businessman I have to look at the problem from a more pragmatic perspective. DRM may not be a perfect solution to our problem but it is one of the only solutions we have. For people to complain that they may not be able to play their music 20 or 30 years down the road because of it is absurd. If that were the case then I should be up in arms about my old cassette collection and VHS tapes. More recently I should be sueing Sony for my having to upgrade all my DVDs to blu-ray if I want to have the best quality images I can get. Hell, I should take Microsoft to task because I can't play all my Xbox games on my 360 now that my old Xbox has died.

DRM is a technology that will likely evolve or be replaced just like every other technology we use every day. Our parents (and likely even some of us) were able to afford the music they wanted, we can too. Unfortunately our society is so willing to spend $500 dollars on a new iPhone yet we are too cheap to buy the music we put on that device. Here's an idea, if you can only afford one or the other, buy the music, get a cheaper MP3 player, take the phone that is free on a 1 or two year plan and suck it up. Eat in every day of the week and you can buy a new CD, drink 4 less beers the next time you hit the pub and hit up iTunes for 20 more songs.

I don't for one second believe that anyone can listen to, or even enjoy, half the songs they have on their iPods. I know I don't.

Yes this bit of legislation is protecting the corporations, but without that protection then they loose money and we loose sources of entertainment. Either that or how about you go to work for the next year and put in a solid effort without being paid for it. There are laws in place to ensure we get paid for our labour, there also have to be laws in place to ensure we pay for our goods, services and media. Believe it or not you can survive without new music or movies. Humanity has done it for millions of years.
November 06, 2009

zeek said:

Not above...
I am not above acts of violence that would stop this 'agreement' of the wealthy elite. I don't have much to live for as is and martyrdom for the greater good of the world's free people would make my life at least meaningful.
November 06, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

Too much socialism
It must be realized that if ACTA gets approval in the U.S., then the next step could be to subject the continued connectivity of the American Internet to the rest of the world to a condition that the country that wishes to be connected adopt ACTA.

Technically, this is not such a big deal.

The more allies the U.S. collects in the process (and it looks like the EU may be quite supportive), the more sense the system will be.

If ACTA is enacted and Canada refuses to take part in it, let us for one minute imagine the quality of the Internet segments available to Canadians if they have no connectivity with the U.S. segments of the Internet.
ACTA makes a lot of sense. Without cooperation of ISPs, enforcement is meaningless. It is time we say ENOUGH to taking the use of someone else's works for free for granted. There is no right to use someone else's property simply because one feels like it.

I wholeheartedly agree with Tyler Pubben: there is really no need to store tens of thousands of songs and hundreds of films on your hard drives. Yes, it is very convenient to download newly released movies off the piratebay, but this completely deforms the business model for those who invest their time, money and talent in creation of those works.

Just like socialism gradually leads to depletion of funds in a country, because there are no incentives to work better (I fail to understand why the example of the Soviet Union has not made it abundantly clear to everybody), worldwide unauthorized use of works of art under the guise of a broad "public benefit" exceptions would gradually lead to the demise of creativity that requires money to be released.

The best example is YouTube, imagine it blocking access to EVERY single video that has been posted there without express consent of copyright owners. How many people would still be using it? Yes, there may be alternative business models, but a business that works under the "supervision" of a racketeer is also a business model of survival. It does not make it any more legitimate. Those artists who care more that their art is disseminated over the Internet for free have legal capacity to do so (yes, it would require that they do not assign their rights to producers). Shielding of ISPs without anything in return is nothing but authorization of racketeering.

ISPs are the cornerstone of the framework of the Internet. Without them, there is no Internet.

Instead of promoting a system where efficient enforcement of IPR is impossible, we must work on the wording to make sure that freedom of speech (provided that the speech does not infringe someone else's IPR) is not compromised under the guise of protection of IPR.
November 06, 2009

Paul Forbes said:

These guys are DRM'ing themselves out of business.
Bring on the DRM I say - and watch the world lose interest in the DRM protected products...
November 06, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

--> Paul Forbes
Let the creators decide how to disseminate their works. If they feel the model is not working because people are not buying their stuff, it will be THEIR decision to change it. Racketeering creators by stealing their works and then claiming "You know what, your outdated model of trying to make a living must be changed" is just immoral, illegal, robinhoodian and nonviable in the long run.
November 07, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

--> Michael Geist
Even though I completely disagree with your assessment of the potential consequences if ACTA is enacted, I would like to thank you for your efforts in lifting the veil of secrecy from the document. I must agree that the secrecy around the document takes away from its value somewhat. I hope they learn the lesson and come up with a more meaningful press release, if not with the disclosure of the draft. And then I hope it is enacted, including in Canada.
November 07, 2009

Ben said:

Times Change 1
“The truth of the matter is that piracy is at an all-time high and we need to find a better way to stop it or premium content will eventually become too costly to produce given reducing numbers of customers who actually buy it.”

Perhaps “premium content” is in its dying days? We don’t NEED “premium content”, especially with so many people like myself who don’t mind being creative for free. I have found my generation has a preference for fame over riches. If ACTA comes into law and copyright becomes super strict then your material will die…guaranteed. My generation will come along, get fed up with the restrictions, and migrate to fairer artists who don’t sue their customers for every last penny they, their kids, and their grandkids will ever make. Honestly, I think you and your “business” may have more to fear from ACTA than we do.

“I love the idea of free music, commercial free television shows and the ability to use this media wherever and whenever I want. However as a businessman I have to look at the problem from a more pragmatic perspective.”

Perhaps your job has been outdated by technology and users who now have the means to create content all by themselves. Whip makers were outdated by technology once the car came along…maybe you’re “whips” are being outdated by users “cars“.

“DRM is a technology that will likely evolve or be replaced just like every other technology we use every day. Our parents (and likely even some of us) were able to afford the music they wanted, we can too.”

I can afford it and I do. I have spent about $1600 in the last year and a half on music related products alone (that‘s not including the several hundred dollars worth of movies I bought as well). Then I back it up on my computer/“cheaper” mp3 player. I also have programs that let me easily break the region coding DRM on my legally imported DVDs. What gives you entertainment companies the right to make it so difficult for me to watch the movies I love when it is perfectly legal to do so? I also listened to a downloaded copy of Morning Musume’s single “Mikan” while I went to the store to buy the( $15!!!) CD single. Many of us “pirates” are more than happy to…and often do…buy. Downloading is instant (so we don’t have to wait until we get a chance to go to the store) and allows us to concentrate our money towards music and artists we actually love…plus it opened me up to Japanese music so I am not limited to Britney Spears, Kanye West, etc…none of which I like at all. I have found I’ve made a shift to just waiting and buying the music I love once I found an import store that would sell it to me…I rarely download anything I know I can go pick up in a day or two anymore.
November 08, 2009

Ben said:

Times Change 2
“Yes this bit of legislation is protecting the corporations, but without that protection then they loose money and we loose sources of entertainment. Either that or how about you go to work for the next year and put in a solid effort without being paid for it.”

I am willing to create for free. I have made short films, written stories, and am working on a play because I love to do that sort of thing…not because anybody has paid me.

“Believe it or not you can survive without new music or movies. Humanity has done it for millions of years.”

If ACTA comes into being, it looks like we’ll have to…at least until the media giants come crashing down after a mass public boycott. Well…there’s always the entertainment people like me are willing to create free of cost/for donations.

“It must be realized that if ACTA gets approval in the U.S., then the next step could be to subject the continued connectivity of the American Internet to the rest of the world to a condition that the country that wishes to be connected adopt ACTA.”

If the US really wants to cut their online businesses off from the rest of the world, especially in today’s economy, I say let them. We’ll see how long that lasts before there is a revolution.

“there is really no need to store tens of thousands of songs and hundreds of films on your hard drives.”

Yeah there is:
1. I paid for it and I am not sharing it with someone who hasn’t
2. Its easier to travel when you don’t use up your entire allowed weight in an airplane with DVDs
3. That’s what an mp3 player is for, yes?

“The best example is YouTube, imagine it blocking access to EVERY single video that has been posted there without express consent of copyright owners. How many people would still be using it?”

Well the industry has two options:
1 Jump on the bandwagon and make financial agreements with it, thus making extra money
2. Police and file DMCA takedown notices on all their videos they can find and sit outside one of the best money making advertising opportunities available ever

“Let the creators decide how to disseminate their works. If they feel the model is not working because people are not buying their stuff, it will be THEIR decision to change it.”
The only reason DRM hasn’t killed the industry yet is because enough people can get around it. That is the only reason. I wouldn’t be going through the effort to import foreign region coded DVDs if I couldn’t break that DRM, would I?
November 08, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

--> Ben
"I am willing to create for free. I have made short films, written stories, and am working on a play because I love to do that sort of thing…not because anybody has paid me."

And do you think you would get the same audience as professional artists whose income is generated by their arts? It can be less of an issue if you have another source of income. And no, I do not believe that there is such a thing as telling an artist what should be enough for them. That's a socialist approach which I despise.

You obviously do have another source of income, so you are free to decide whether you create your stuff for fame, for money or for both. And no one is forcing you into selling out.

On the other hand, I am going to buy CDs of my favourite bands, even if I can get music by someone I don't know for free. It is not just about the cost.



"We’ll see how long that lasts before there is a revolution. "

You mean war, right? If Canada is disconnected from the US internet because it refuses to cooperate to fight P2P piracy, do you think Canada will declare a war against the US? Or do you think there will be revolution in Canada to ensure that Canada's copyright laws advance from the stone age state they currently are?


"The only reason DRM hasn’t killed the industry yet is because enough people can get around it"

I agree that DRM sucks, both in principle and in reality. It was designed to overcome unwillingness of ISPs to cooperate. To me, the failure of DRM was the last straw that led to the development of ACTA. It became obvious that if ISPs are not part of the solution, then there is no solution.
November 09, 2009

Christopher said:

I have a severe problem with international agreements making DRM circumvention illegal
And some people miss a salient point: 90% or more of the 'illegal copies' of stuff on the internet is of stuff that should be OUT OF COPYRIGHT and PATENT time now, or they are 'abandonware' stuff.... like games that are not sold anymore in any way, shape or form anywhere.... and therefore, downloading them on the internet is the ONLY WAY TO GET THEM!

I download quite a few older games on a regular basis 'illegally'.... but I know that the companies in question won't try to sue me because all I would have to do.... tell the judge "Hey, I tried to find these things online legally, and NO ONE SELLS THEM ANYMORE! Or, no one sells them without a BOATLOAD of DRM 'protections' that can damage my computer!"

Yes, I said it: DRM CAN DAMAGE YOUR COMPUTER! The companies in question here would love for you to not believe that.... but judging from my experiences with SecuROM and StarForce messing up my BRAND NEW Windows 7 installation..... I know it's true!
November 09, 2009

Jason K said:

Ben
"The harm from current worldwide IP infringement is much greater than potential dangers of censorship."

lmao..I was wondering why there was so many responses on here. I see that industry has sent out their goons once again. Ben, there's an absence of evidence to prove your point here, even within industry. Do you really think society will allow censorship and control over civil rights to those in the entertainment industries? There are a lot of factors right now that are contributing to the downfall of "some" in the IP industries. IP infringement being the least of your worries, the attitude displayed by industry and yourself should be at the forefront.

If you are a creator, than I think you need to decode yourself a bit. If we are to give up civil liberties with respect to IP enforcement than we should equally restrict the subjects creators create works on, and while we're at it, we might as well look for Hilter's double. Society will not let this type of censorship occur. If you think different, then you should be looking for another career path. It ain't going to happen especially after historic lessons that society has learned on when you hand control and censorship to a few loose cannons like yourself. Canadian Artists, and creators overwhelmingly disapproved with your point in the copyright consultations. So which of the big four labels are you with?


November 09, 2009

leodavinci said:

...
Considering that the Vice President was known for his entertainment industry connections, why is anyone surprised by this?
November 09, 2009

Ben said:

...
Jason >

That wasn't me who said that. I strongly believe in having my civil liberties and as a person who creates FOR FREE, I believe in having no censorship whatsoever. I HATE ACTA and will do what I can to prevent its signing into law in Canada.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin

Andrei >

"And do you think you would get the same audience as professional artists whose income is generated by their arts?"

Perhaps eventually. Look at Justin Bieber or Belle de Jour. The key to getting in audience is not how good your product is, but your advertising. Online, advertising CAN take off on its own...and if not, you've got the world at your finger tips to star advertising your stuff internationally for free. You don't need millions of dollars to put you movie trailer in the theatres or TV...all you need is youtube, a marketing gimick, and membership at a few forums that would be interested. Even big corporations are taking note on that...that's all Media Blasters really did when they released "The Machine Girl" and that DVD was a top seller for weeks.

"On the other hand, I am going to buy CDs of my favourite bands, even if I can get music by someone I don't know for free. It is not just about the cost."

What part of I buy CDs too don't you understand? I just use the internet to sift through and then put all my money into the artists I like. Avex is one label that knows how music works in this age: they put all their PVs on youtube so people like me can watch them and decide which artists I like that way. They probably make money from the ads on their pages in the process so even if I decide I hate the artist they can get some money for me watching it.

"You mean war, right? If Canada is disconnected from the US internet because it refuses to cooperate to fight P2P piracy, do you think Canada will declare a war against the US? Or do you think there will be revolution in Canada to ensure that Canada's copyright laws advance from the stone age state they currently are?"

No, I don't mean war...I know Canada won't go to war over that. I mean't the online businesses in the US will start demanding access to the rest of the world. You think Google would just stand by as the president cut off China and Canada? Also, that level of online censorship isn't even possible because people will just go around it.

If ACTA becomes law, I think there will be a consumer revolt against Hollywood...it has already been happening, but it has been very uncoordinated. People will be pushed to the edge by this legislation and fight back with civil disobedience and boycotts. As I said before, this legislation is probably worse for the industry than consumers. You guys are building your coffin.

I agree that DRM sucks, both in principle and in reality. It was designed to overcome unwillingness of ISPs to cooperate. To me, the failure of DRM was the last straw that led to the development of ACTA. It became obvious that if ISPs are not part of the solution, then there is no solution."

There is no solution except to adapt. Are you industry goons really that incapable of understanding basic market forces? You've lost...all the draconian legislation won't do a thing for you. There are simply too many of us to put in jails and that will refuse to pay any fines.
November 09, 2009

Ben said:

Correction to Previous Post
"I agree that DRM sucks, both in principle and in reality. It was designed to overcome unwillingness of ISPs to cooperate. To me, the failure of DRM was the last straw that led to the development of ACTA. It became obvious that if ISPs are not part of the solution, then there is no solution." ~ Andrei Mincov

There is no solution except to adapt. Are you industry goons really that incapable of understanding basic market forces? You've lost...all the draconian legislation won't do a thing for you. There are simply too many of us to put in jails and that will refuse to pay any fines.
November 09, 2009

Andrei Mincov said:

Revolt against Hollywood
Sure, there are so many of you who would be happy to revolt against Hollywood and confine themselves to whatever is produced by amateurs worldwide, for free.

You are effectively suggesting that professional artists become amateurs. Which would in turn rob us of whatever may be created by those who risk to invest their time in developing their talents as their SOLE path of career.


--> Ben
"What part of I buy CDs too don't you understand?"

If you continue robbing artists of their rights to control the use of their works and to receive what they think if fair, there will be no CDs to buy. Again, forcing artists to give up their rights by violating their rights and calling this "adoption of a new business model" is nothing but racketeering.


--> Jason:
I don't work for any of the entertainment giants. I don't work for entertainment industry at all. I simply see the value of strong copyright enforcement, and if ISPs are not a part of the solution, then there is no solution to that at all.


I guess we will just wait and see if the mass of pirates breaks the system of IPR and we gradually degrade as a society in result.
November 09, 2009

for the lulz said:

Stop complaining
Its not the end of the world.
November 09, 2009

Jason K said:

Ben + Andrei
Sorry Ben, my fault..it was actually Andrei that stated that.

Andrei -> There's a huge difference between ISP involvement and an attack on a free society are 2 completely different ideologies. I agree with you with respect to ISP's being part of the solution, but strongly disagree with you on how that is to be done for a number of reasons. Not withstanding the fact of infringing on the rights of a free society in the name of civil copyright enforcement (which anybody thinks is going to happen is seriously in need of a mental check up), but more over technical protections, and ISP "enforcement" will not work. Anyone who has been following up with respect to the CRTC net neutrality hearings can see the fall back with respect to DPI (which would be used by the ISP's to enforce these rules), and the fact that most P2P programs now have already nullified this technology. Furthermore with darknet services becoming the norm now, file sharing is starting to become very untraceable. The ISP enforcement debate is already obsolete.

What has gradually degraded, is the expectation that society owes the creative industry demands on the system in play now, when the creative industries have done nothing, absolutely nothing to follow and understand the market they are currently faced with. There is amble evidence to support this. The fact Andrei that you are talking about "CD's" in this thread is quite representing of your knowledge in this market. You might as well be talking about 8 tracks. I haven't seen a "CD" walkman on anyone in close to 10 years!

I agree with you however that something needs to be done. I think that ISP's should be licensed and pay into a copyright pool for new industry startups, and funding (since this is the ONLY area right now that is currently degrading), and a focus with respect to media on new advertising models that more suit the expectation of shared social media online. That isn't being done, and in fact a few months ago Industry reps were on Geists blog bitching about his exposure, and the fact they couldn't get through to Canadians. If they were to figure out why that is, than most of the problems with respect to what we are seeing right now in IP and especially in media wouldn't exist. Until they put this in place, the argument for strong copyright "enforcement" with respect to the internet user doesn't hold any weight. There is no evidence to prove the argument nor to support any changes within copyright law as far as I'm concerned.

A lot of the idiots running things over in the entertainment industry, don't understand the marketplace as it exists today. No law can change the current problem, even if we went for stronger IP enforcement laws. But don't take my word for it:

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When I say CDs, I refer to an album, i.e. a collection of new songs recorded by an artist.

Again, I do agree that the act of ripping a purchased cd into mp3s for one's own personal use should be decriminalized. But it is not going to happen unless there is some reasonable enforcement of what happens to those mp3s on the net.

To me, ISPs persistent refusal to cooperate is akin to regulating traffic without any assistance from city authorities or road police. Yes, you can of course go to court every time, but you can't get any evidence and you can't really enforce anything in a meaningful manner.

The Internet would have evolved much more organically, if the ISPs took the side of IPR owners instead of pirates.

The current problem is that ISPs are still taking every possible step (including bringing in all sorts of civil liberty groups) to make sure that things stay the way they used to be.

If major players in the equation refuse to cooperate then any attempt to legislate them into cooperation would have its disadvantages. The regulation would be either overly broad or unpermissively narrow.

However, it is not a reason to just let things ruin the current system by making a reference to inability to provide a perfect solution. There are no perfect solutions. The question is, is an imperfect solution better than the current mess. I would say, it is.

PS to no one in particular: coming from a country that, until it collapsed, used to be socialist (which was exactly why it had collapsed), I am really stunned by how many people HONESTLY believe that they will have better luck building a socialist utopia in place of what used to be strong market economies.
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Even using the term "intellectual property" confuses the issue and concedes massive territory to the other side.

The term refers to totally separate areas of law and policy (e.g. patents and copyright) that work in different ways and exist for different reasons. Using the term just spreads confusion. If we're talking about copyright, let's say "copyright".

Even worse, it encourages people (even those of us who should know better) to think of copyrights or patents as physical property, which biases the discussion in favor of the forces we're trying to fight.

If copyright is a kind of property (which it isn't) than Hollwood et al. are trying to protect their property, which sounds reasonable.

If copyright is one of many public policy options to support science and art (which it is) then these companies are pushing for a stupid public policy that harms the public and does nothing to support the arts, as part of a plan to enrich themselves (one which probably won't even work).

This is *definitely* a case where how we talk about it changes how the broader public sees it.
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The market is now a singles market, not an album market.

"Again, I do agree that the act of ripping a purchased cd into mp3s for one's own personal use should be decriminalized. But it is not going to happen unless there is some reasonable enforcement of what happens to those mp3s on the net."

The first point on this subject is the fact that DRM was overwhelmingly rejected by the market, followed up by Sony installing "root kits" on their CD's which had a direct impact on not just privacy, but also with respect to the operations of the systems it installed itself on. Sony was sued on that.

As some with a technical background, I can tell you that no matter what "software" or "hardware" is installed to protect an MP3 from finding it's way online, someone will find the back door and put it online anyway. It hasn't worked over the past 10 years. It's a dead issue, and no longer realistic to the discussion. The market made their choice on that. Moving forward with TPM's or DRM gives the creators a false scene of security. These protection measures are meant as a deterrence, but can not be enforced in the digital realm, unless we start installing camera's in every bedroom, living room, and basement in Canada.

The problem most are unwilling to accept is basically a virtual stalemate. Anything industry does to try and protect content, will eventually be exploited online. What we need to do is move away from trying to protect and control an environment that is not controllable, and look at monetizing IP rather than enforcing it with respect to the general population and consumer.

I agree with you that there is not perfect solution, however the solutions that industry presents are purely policy driven towards a socialist agenda and that is the reason why it will fail. In order to enforce policies such as ACTA we would be looking at turning a medium into a tightly controlled environment with severe penalties that do not fit the crime, nor are acceptable within free market principles, nor a free society. It would allow a selected few to have total control over content displayed online, the marketplace, consumer choices, and that's not good for society in general nor creators. This has been overwhelmingly rejected here in Canada by both Industry and Creators themselves.

Therefore the choices are very simple and are as follows:

1) Spend insane amounts of money installing DPI (that is already obsolete) to enforce IP laws online (that can not be enforced practically), and piss off your income base instigating product revolt on bad public relations, and costing several politicians their jobs.

or

2) Give up some of the control on IP, monetize it in a way that's practical and will work, engage the marketplace aggressively, and above all be consumer friendly rather than pissing them off (ever chance you get) by taking away things they want to do with purchased media which includes sharing it with friends, family, and on social media.

File sharing will always exist, but if you use it and understand it, you can develop marketing techniques to benefit from it. If you fight it, then you lose out on a large portion of potential income, and you end up not surviving for long within the marketplace.

There will be resistance from the ISP's on the issue of monetization. Currently our ISP's are charging insane rates while consumers get basically nothing with respect to service and speed. Greed is ever present with respect to all corporate players in this debate. That's why the public needs to be engaged in this, and are in a big way in Canada. As it always will be in this debate, it will be up to consumers where are public policy on copyright ends up, not politicians, and most certainly not those who are currently not engaged in the marketplace.
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