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Who are James Moore's "Radical Extremists"?

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Tuesday June 22, 2010
Canadian Heritage Minister James Moore delivered a keynote address at a conference sponsored by the Chamber of Commerce's IP Council today and according to media reports warned against "radical extremists" seeking to oppose Bill C-32.  It should be obvious to virtually everyone that labeling those that seek reforms to a copyright bill as "radical extremists" is an embarrassing slander that should be promptly retracted.  While there are undoubtedly some that oppose the bill altogether (just as there are some that want tougher reforms including three strikes), characterizing those concerned with a copyright bill in this manner is wholly inappropriate for a cabinet minister.

So when Moore warns about radical extremists opposing C-32, who is he speaking of?  Who has criticized parts of the bill or called for reforms? A short list of those critical of the digital lock provisions in C-32 would include:

Of course, criticism of C-32 is not limited to the digital lock provisions with groups such as ACTRA, Writers' Union, Access Copyright, and the Canadian Conference of the Arts among those criticizing fair dealing or other elements of the bill.  Moreover, at the event Moore was speaking at, an entertainment industry representative from Vivendi criticized the notice-and-notice approach in C-32.

In other words, all opposition parties, consumers, universities, teachers, students, business, and many creator groups are all seeking changes to C-32.  Does Moore really believe that they are all radical extremists? Who is he referring to?

Update: With the release of the full video, there is an answer.  He is referring to me and the thousands of Canadians speaking out for fair copyright. My response here.

Update II: Video confirmation of the radical extremists comment in a second video clip now online.

Comments (64)add comment

Graham Williams said:

...
I sincerely hope Mr. Moore considers me among those radical extremists: I'd be in great company.

Free speech is not radical, and opposing draconian laws is not extremism. Mr. Moore's comments are a dangerous precedent; we do not need government approval to speak our minds. Worse still, this is a man who blocks people from questioning him; has there ever been a more appropriate image for our minister of heritage than a man with his fingers in his ears chanting "I can't hear you!"?
June 22, 2010

Junji Hiroma said:

[sarcasm]I think you are a terrorist too Michael... [/sarcasm] but seriously....
Why is it that every time ppl Speak out on a bill that they have to be labelled a terrorist. James Moore is the equivalent of Majority Whip James Clyburn who TOLD ppl that Opposed Obamacare that THEY ARE AIDING TERRORISM.James Moore is doing the same with this bill.

THEY ARE TRAITORS AND TYRANTS THAT MUST BE REMOVED!!

For ppl that don't believe me that you oppose a bill ,you're a terrorist thing is true,then watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUbFrAyZyoA
Straight for the Lame Stream Media's mouth!
June 22, 2010

Maniac said:

...
Hey Michael, don't forget the Pirate Party of Canada.
June 22, 2010

Adam said:

Me too
Seeing that I was blocked on Twitter today by @mpjamesmoore I think I probably fall under that "radical extremist" category as well.
June 22, 2010

Mr. Magoo said:

We the people... oh, DOH! I mean, We the Radical Extremists of the united states of Canada
Did you expect anything less?

After all, this corporate lap-puppy of a heritage minister we have claims the Chamber of Commerce speaks for all the citizens of Canada.
June 22, 2010

Den said:

...
Does he really know what thats term really mean?

Simply name us all for terroists.........I think his days to be minister is limit.
June 22, 2010

Mr. Magoo said:

@Adam
Dear Radical Extremest Adam, please see:
http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/5166

Your re-education will commence in January.
June 22, 2010

Mike Vardy said:

Moore Shenanigans
Yeah, @dyscultured has been blocked by @mpjamesmoore now. Don't know why, really. We're far too lazy to be radical extremists. Perhaps radical loiterers would be more appropriate.

We'll be talking about this on the next podcast, fer sure.
June 22, 2010

Mr. Snake said:

Sllllllllliiiiiiiither
Come on, we all know the Minster of Heritage is talking about the doc here. Let's not play dumb.
June 22, 2010

Maupassant said:

...
So Minister Clement doesn't understand the bill he supposedly co-authoured (qv this week's Search Engine), and Minister Moore calls me (& nearly everybody else) a radical extremist. Kinda like being on Nixon's enemies list isn't it?
June 22, 2010

Captain Hook said:

In Fairness
"Moore warned against “radical extremists” seeking to oppose the legislation."

Means there are radical extremists who oppose the legislation.

It does not mean all who oppose the legislation are radical extremists.

-----

Now having said that, there is certainly no shortage of ways to criticize either Minister Moore or his Bill, so there really is no need to go out of ones way to misinterpret his words.
June 22, 2010

crade said:

...
@hook
In fairness, I would have to say the implication is crystal clear.
June 22, 2010

Glenn said:

...
I say we all need to call for his immediate dismissal period... He is beyond unfit to serve the public in Canada
June 22, 2010

Captain Hook said:

Perhaps
But if you are trying to travel the moral high road you have to give the benefit of the doubt to ambiguous statements, or else it will devalue the worth of your other criticisms.
June 22, 2010

Jason K said:

!HEADS UP!
CSIS extremely worried about about foreign influence in Canada. CBC The National to air story on CSIS tonight. IP will also be discussed.
June 22, 2010

Glenn said:

...
What is your source for that Jason K?
June 22, 2010

Junji Hiroma said:

HAHAHAHAHA
Awesome Jason,We know now that they are going to do the hitpiece(which is going to blow up in their face).You are a patriot to this country and I thank you.
June 22, 2010

John said:

You missed the point
@Junji

I think you missed the point of what James Clyburn was saying in that clip. It was certainly exaggerated for him to refer to it as terrorism but he wasn't talking about people who were simply in opposition to the bill. He was rightfully expressing concern about protesters with Obama Hitler posters and inflammatory and inaccurate comparisons to Marxism and Socialism.
June 22, 2010

Jason K said:

...
@Glenn: Mansbridge was talking about the CSIS bit on Power and Politics. Don't know exactly were IP will fit in here but he stated that was going to be discussed in the piece to air tonight, and that the head of CSIS was extremely worried about foreign influence on the public service sector. He stated they were pushing for names, and to watch the piece tonight on the National. This sounds like it's going to be very interesting.
June 22, 2010

Glenn said:

...
@ Jason K.

Thnx for the info.. I'll of course have to "pirate" a copy of this show since I'm a radical extremist.

June 22, 2010

crade said:

...
That CBC peice on CSIS was very interesting yesterday. I look forward to tonights. Highly recommended!
June 22, 2010

end user said:

...
Seriously who the hell works for who here? Why is this incompetent person only speaking with corporations and pro business councils, seems like a HUGE conflict of some sort is going on here when he's calling concerned Canadian citizen "radical extremists"
June 22, 2010

Eric L. said:

...
I guess if Charles Manson supported C32, then he wouldn't be considered a radical extremist.

If only I could reach Moore's paradigm of logic...

June 22, 2010

Anonymous said:

...
Mr. Geist, I generally deeply respect your blog, but the insinuation that Moore was referring to these groups such as these by the term "radical extremists" may, I fear, be far more slanderous than his choice of words.

I would think it more likely that he could be speaking of people who would advocate complete liberation from copyright altogether, rather than the particular groups you mention.

I've got no appreciation for the digital locks provisions in C32 *AT ALL*, but I don't think he's calling these groups "radical extremists" and suggesting that he did is only likely to illicit emotional reactions from a lot of people, and weakens the credibility of much more rational arguments against the problems with the bill.
June 22, 2010

David said:

...
So, the Loyal Opposition is now synonymous with Radical Extremists?
June 22, 2010

Jim R said:

...
For the love of god will someone please start selling campaign buttons that say "I am an anti C-32 Radical Extremist!!!"
June 22, 2010

end user said:

...
@ Anonymous

Moore warned against “radical extremists” seeking to oppose the legislation.

The above statements reads pretty clear to me that hes referring to any Canadian citizenthats is fighting for consumer rights that are about to be eroded while gaining US corporations a strong hold on Canadian consumers.
June 22, 2010

crade said:

...
@Anonymous
So if I made a statement to the press as a politician:
Watch out for all those criminals who support gay rights.

You think that is an honest and fair thing to say because there probably are a few criminals somewhere who support gay rights?
June 22, 2010

R. Bassett Jr. said:

www.bolug.ca
Add me to the list of those concerned about the digital lock provision and I have neither the time nor the energy to be radical or extreme.

The rights we have been given to access information are nothing more than words on paper if we allow them to be ignored. Especially if the greed of corporations and the ignorance of elected officials are why our rights are ignored. Pretty hard to call something a "right" when you're not afforded the privilege of defending it when it matters.

For years now we've been telling the government, with the written word and politely in person, that we do not care for the digital lock concept. What else are we supposed to do? Blow something up? Here we are stating how we feel and why we feel that way in a constructive manner and our elected officials treat us with contempt for it. I simply do not understand their logic. In fact, I find their behavior both repulsive and embarrassing.
June 22, 2010

crade said:

...
It is possible he was misquoted, or that the statement is an exaggerated version of what was actually said.
June 22, 2010

strunk&white said:

I'm getting all misty
Captain Hook and Anonymous stepping up as the voices of reason in the Geist comment section.

This is the best belated Fathers Day gift a corporate troll could ask for. It's like everything I've been doing here for the last hundred years has been leading to this very moment.

Geist has taken his laughable rhetoric too far for two of his stalwarts.

Look at that sunshine after the storm. It's... it's... breathtaking.
June 22, 2010

Danux said:

You agree with me, or you're a terrorist.
Perhaps the FLQv2.0 has secretly contacted Mr. Moore?
June 22, 2010

oldguy said:

...
Yes, Moore's words could be interpreted in varying degrees and meanings of “radical extremists”. It's possible to give him the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was only speaking of a small minority that oppose elements in C-32.

But.. This was a prepared speech. I would have expected a choice of words that would be clear and informative as to their meaning. Perhaps he just needs to fire his speech writers, they may be getting a bit "too creative".

There is one more element to throw into the mix, and that is his selective blocking of twitter followers. Although you really can't read much into this directly, when you combine this with his prepared speech it does imply some individuals he might consider to be "extremists".

June 22, 2010

HJK said:

"Wholly inappropriate ..."
"Wholly inappropriate" comments from a Harper minister? Gee, what a surprise.

What's hilarious and sad is real "conservatives" would preserve the status quo and protect individuals, and thus Moore, Harper and their ilk are revealed to be the real "radicals".
June 22, 2010

Captain Hook said:

...
oldguy, be sure those were choice words. I'm sure he picked those words so he could imply all his opponents were radical without having to actually say so.

My point was that responses to these choice words need to, themselves, be carefully chosen so that it cannot be said that you are misinterpreting his words for your own gain.

strunk&white you flatter yourself far too much. Moore chooses these words specifically so that he can make these sorts of implications without having to actually stand behind them. It is a slimy underhanded tactic and Geist is more than right to take him for task for it. Geist simply needs to qualify his own words a little better. You on the other hand could often chose your words a lot better. I've noticed several times you've ended up here with your foot firmly planted in your mouth.
June 22, 2010

Radical Extremist said:

Copyright is Stupid
Artists don't need it. Artists can make money without copyrighting their work. Distributors need copyright but distributors don't make art.
June 22, 2010

phillipsjk said:

Gem people are missing:
"Moore said so far the opposition hasn’t proposed any amendments to the bill, which will be examined by a stand-alone legislative committee."

I checked the letter I sent to several MPs with a link to Micheal Geist's proposed changes. If appears I sent the letter to "Hon. Tony Clement, Minister of Industry" instead. Am I to believe *nobody* sent minister Moore a letter mentioning possible improvements to the bill?
June 22, 2010

phillipsjk said:

Re above
Maybe "The opposition" refers to "The official Opposition", which would be the Liberal party.
June 22, 2010

strunk&white said:

...
Now, Hook, don't be modest. Whose the brave little boy who stands up to the big, mean professor? Who is it?

That's right, it's you.

I think maybe Moore is just referring to any one of dozens (sometimes hundreds) of extreme and radical comments anyone with eyes can find in this comment stream, or after any copyright story in the media. It's not like the extreme flank of anti-copyright has hidden itself in the grass.

There's lots I'd change about C-32, and strangely I don't feel that Moore was talking about me at all.
June 22, 2010

Zhora said:

Sam Bulte, hello!
I am an Anti-C-32 Radical Extremist, and a pro-user zealot!
June 22, 2010

Brandon Laraby said:

Wow, I guess I'm an Extremist too...
I came at it from the perspective of an 'average, unaffiliated, citizen' who tried to read the bill and understand it as a lay person.

My legalese comprehension is... well... yeah, not the best but I've been giving it the old college try anyway.

I'm over 3/4 of the way through the bill now and have been blogging about my experiences trying to slog through it all while comparing it to the original Act and trying to see what's changed.

You can check out my 'adventure' here (This link is to part 1 of 9, the rest are linked on the side, part 10 on the 'digital locks' section is coming up tomorrow):
http://aboyandhistvshow.blogspot.com/2010/06/my-take-on-bill-c-32-part-1.html

It's some dry reading at first but there's some interesting stuff in there if you're willing to dig around.

Cheers,
Brandon
June 22, 2010

Captain Hook said:

...
Yeah, but whitey be honest. The changes you want would be called buttressing, not opposing. So it's not really any wonder you don't take his words personally.
June 22, 2010

Mark said:

...
Agreed... he probably should have chosen better wording, although I'm inclined to agree with a couple of the above posters that he might not have meant what is being implied.
June 22, 2010

strunk&white said:

...
That, Hook, shows your monochrome view of "balanced" legislation. It seems everyone here calls for balance, until they feel they have to give something up (on balance) -- and then they call for a Minister's resignation.

I oppose the passing of Bill C-32 in its present form, as I feel it needs crucial amendments to make sure viable markets or cultural work are not needlessly destroyed in the name of placating misinformed consumer groups.

And I'll mention that to Minister Moore the next time we have a secret lunch meeting. Or maybe I'll just tweet him.
June 22, 2010

Captain Hook said:

...
Oh I see whitey. Right. So you want balance too, as long as nothing has be be given up to the consumer. Sure, I can see there is a whole world of difference between your position and your concept of every else's position.

We've already established that you don't oppose any of the Bill's new rights for copyright holders so I'm not in the least bit surprised by your secret lunches, direct phone line, or or matching secret agent rings. I'm also not in the least but surprised by the implications he makes of his critics or even how he treats some of them directly.
June 22, 2010

Mike J said:

...
I own a couple dozen HD-DVD's I spent roughly $500 on ... please tell me Mr. Moore what should I do when I can no longer play them on any authorized source and my current player breaks? Do you expect me to repurchase them on the media of the day? Blu-Ray now? something else in another 5 years?
June 22, 2010

oldguy said:

@Mike J
You sir, are obviously a prime example of a "radical extremist"!
June 23, 2010

Crockett said:

...
Someone mentioned that the "James" who has posted a few hundred times in the long running carpet bombing thread fro a few days ago was actually James Moore the Heritage minister. I said no, the minister must be more intelligent that that shill but now I am not so sure at all!
June 23, 2010

Dale Bolton said:

Like they will listen
You know, Harper and his Cons DO NOT CARE!! They do not care at all what you me and everyone else thinks. As far as he is concerned he is God and what he says is the end all be all. We had those great town hall meetings about it, and everything was shoved under the rug and ignored. All they have done is bowed to their masters in the MPAA and RIAA and have allowed even MORE American made laws to enter Canada.
June 23, 2010

ygjb said:

CSIS Reports foreign interest controlling Canadian Politicians
First read this,
http://www.vancouversun.com/ne...vernments
+CSIS/3188366/story.html

And watch this,
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/06/22/f-csis-stewart-day2.html

And wonder why it takes CSIS on the media to make people realize this is happening when we have Mr. Moore and the Conservatives are either under the influence or outright under the control of the United States.
June 23, 2010

Crockett said:

BREAKING NEWS !!!!
BREAKING NEWS FLASH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"The head of Canada’s spy agency says foreign governments have infiltrated Canadian politics, CBC News reported Tuesday night."
Ref. (www.nationalpost.com)

Heh, I must say I'm shocked. I never suspected such a thing could happen 0_o

Do you think it could go all the way up to the Heritage department?

June 23, 2010

jimmy said:

Michael Geist .. a radical extremist ?
probably so lol....
June 23, 2010

Captain Hook said:

I was wrong
OK

The industry appologist Barry Sookman has a blog post with significantly more quotes from Moore.

http://www.barrysookman.com/2010/06/23/minister-moore’s-speech-on-c-32/

Here is just a small sample.

"They just say well Bill C-61, the old copyright legislation, we disagree with these specific revisions. Well, Bill C-32 we have these specific amendments. Don’t fool yourself. These voices that are out there, there’s people out there who pretend to experts that the media cites all the time, they don’t believe in any copyright reform whatsoever. "
...
"We need to amend our legislation and those people out there who try pretend that they’re copyright experts and they want to amend copyright in a meaningful way, don’t be fooled by some of these people. They don’t believe in any copyright. "


He is most definitely fearmongering, and it's not even all that ambiguous. He honestly seems to be saying that anyone who wants changes to this legislation is just pretending and they really want to kill it. Certainly, as he describes these 'people' you would not be able to distinguish them from the earnest critics.

Between this, and blocking other earnest and intelligent critics from following his tweets, he is really showing himself to be a bit of a scum bag.

http://www.digital-copyright.ca/node/5166

June 23, 2010

Russell McOrmond said:

Full video of rant online
If anyone hasn't heard Minister Moore's rant, please check out the video which has been posted online.

http://BillC32.ca/5170

@Captain Hook

You can short-form digital-copyright.ca URLs by taking the number after node/ and sticking it after http://BillC32.ca

IE: http://BillC32.ca/5166 or http://Fix.BillC32.ca/5166 or http://RadicalExtremists.BillC32.ca/5166

June 23, 2010

cndcitizen said:

...
@Hook....all I can say is wow...you would think that a 34 year old politician would have some world knowledge and not sink to gossip or fear mongering like school kids....plus his tweets are full of spelling mistakes...are you sure he is still not in school and spreading gossip about his enemy.

I think MG is the only one that is vocal and trying to get a true dialogue going on about this bill and the negative impact that digital locks will have on the economy and business (except RIAA and MPAA). This law should not be about one business model unfortunatly it seems that Moore and Harper have been given enough contributions to their campaignes or future job appointments (when they are kicked out of office) by the media industry....

Shouldn't be surprised, seems Harpers right wing has now been asked to head up Fox News Canada (Right Wing Nut Jobs) to give "balanced news"...sort of like the Balanced Copyright site that the CRIA have created.

Where can we get transparent and HONEST politicians.
June 23, 2010

Privacy Guy said:

...
I suspect that from his ivory, cloistered tower, Mr. Moore's knowledge of his opposition only extends to his political opponents, including the (now official) Pirate Party of Canada!

P
June 23, 2010

Jordan Louis said:

A Sigh For the Sorry State of the Conservative Intellect
I'm starting to think that the only radical extremists are the ones who snuck into the Conservative party. I think they used to be called the "Reform" party....

Here are some posts from my blog on this topic:

Interpreting Bill C-32 - http://jordanlouis.ca/blog/?p=85

A Fruitless Conversation With MP James Moore - http://jordanlouis.ca/blog/?p=116

Apparently my writings are sure-fire evidence of a terrorist conspiracy against James Moore, the Conservative party and the content creation industry.
June 23, 2010

Eric L. said:

RE: Jordan Louis
"I think they used to be called the "Reform" party...."

Indeed. Apparently, if Harpers screws up the next election (ala no majority), then his replacement will be more of a grass-roots, right-wing, Reform Party oriented extremist than he is.

Yes, the "Conservatives" are nothing more than a retitled Reform/Alliance party on steroids. But hey, we've know that for years right?
June 23, 2010

George Taylor said:

Please get it right, Mr. Moore
"They will find any excuse ... to undermine what has been a meaningful comprehensive year-long effort to get something right."

Get something right on behalf of who, Mr. Moore? How do you define "right"? "Right" from who's point of view? Clearly you have consulted a broad range of copyright owners, but that is only half the picture. They are copyright owners only because we the people of Canada permit them to enjoy this monopoly. We may just as well take that monopoly away, though I am not suggesting that we do. The point is, it is the Canadian people you must consult.

Who do you represent? You didn't ask me, and I am a Canadian. You don't even know what my opinion is. You are in office to represent Canadians, not the copyright lobby or the interests of the USA. I am not aware of any process that was conducted to discover the broad Canadian public's view on copyright reform. If that hasn't been done, (and it clearly hasn't), then you have no business pushing C-32.
June 23, 2010

Gary Marcuse said:

Media producer, collaborating with the Canadian Association of Media Education Organizations.
You can add teachers to the list of extremists. The Canadian Association of Media Education Organizations supports fair use and criticizes legislation that fails to recognize and support the needs of educators. Threatening teachers with prosecution if they break digital locks while exercising rights to critical study and review puts a chill on media literacy education.
June 23, 2010

Jon Jennings said:

Open Source
Don't forget to add 'anyone with an interest in Open Source software' to your list.

I'm assuming that, if I want to play a DVD on my computer, then I'll have to break the digital locks on it. Same as opening a file in a proprietary format like DOC or PDF.

Maybe I am a Radical Extremist after all.
June 24, 2010

phillipsjk said:

@Jon
That *may* fall under the interoperability exemption.

However, I suspect that exemption can be revoked through the release of a "free" binary-blob player that works under Gnu/Linux.

Then to qualify, you would have move to strange hardware like something PowerPC based, or strange software like something BSD based.

But then the can release a player for those as well, or take you to court accusing you of using a "circumvention device"; which ever would cost them less.

A game of Cat & mouse ensues.
June 24, 2010

Jake Daynes said:

Pirate Party of Canada
Professor,

You seem to have forgotten the Pirate Party in Canada in your list of groups he is labeling Radical Extremists.

Jake Daynes
Leader of the Pirate Party of Canada
June 25, 2010

Darryl Moore said:

@Jake
Teh,

Thank you Jake for that comment. That's was the best laugh I've had all day.
June 25, 2010

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