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Moore Says Chamber of Commerce Support Evidence Consumers Like C-32

In one of the strangest responses to C-32 yet, Canadian Heritage Minister James Moore told the House of Commons yesterday that consumers are supportive of C-32 and cites as evidence the Canadian Chamber of Commerce.  The Chamber describes itself as Canada's largest and most influential business association and makes no pretense of representing consumer interests.  The exchange:

Mrs. Carole Lavallée (Saint-Bruno—Saint-Hubert, BQ):

Mr. Speaker, that is absolutely wrong. The government has not kept the promises it made to consumers. The Canadian Consumer Initiative has stated that the digital lock is:

…a punitive approach that has proven ineffective elsewhere in the world. Consumers' rights may be restricted or even denied by the media companies.

That is what national organizations responsible for consumer rights have said. How can the minister deny the fact that his bill favours neither creators nor consumers?

Hon. James Moore (Minister of Canadian Heritage and Official Languages, CPC):

Mr. Speaker, that is simply not true. This bill is good for both groups. An organization that my colleague knows well, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, does act in consumers' best interests. According to the chamber, Bill C-32 is an important step toward maintaining a competitive, thriving economy. Bill C-32 is a monumental and essential measure that will go a long way toward maintaining a stable and competitive business environment in Canada. The only suggestion we have heard from the Bloc Québécois so far was to impose a new $75 tax on iPods. That is not in consumers' best interests.

32 Comments

  1. Captain Hook says:

    Well phfff, yah. Consumers are the ones who pay money in exchange for good or services. Mr. Moore knows full well who his consumers are in this instance.

  2. Why do the CPC consistently ignore the democratic process? says:

    If he’s not being dishonest then he’s completely ignorant, which is worse because he’s got an important job within Canada.

    Essentially his comments make it clear that he’s not fit for his position because he can’t analyze who actually represents CANADIANS and CONSUMERS and who actually does not. Why can’t he do his due diligence and figure it out, he’s responsible for legislative and executive powers in Canada!

  3. Anarchist Philanthropist says:

    “The only suggestion we have heard from the Bloc Québécois so far was to impose a new $75 tax on iPods.”

    Thats a far better option than laws that screw every Canadian over. I mean really all that bill said and then it can be taken away by the owners putting digital locks on the media. Well lets face it, if that all they have to do to stop people from copying their stuff then you know in the next 2 years EVERYTHING will have a digital lock on it and all of us consumers will be fkd.

    What ever happened to fair and honest representation by the people we put into office??

  4. Well, some aspects of C-32 *ARE* very attractive for consumers… explicit private copying, format shifting, and backup privileges, for example.

    Of course, the damn caveat that the consumer can only legally exercise those privileges when a work is not protected by a digital lock, and the fact that the content publisher gets to decide whether or not to use any digital locks on their material means that even these “privileges” granted by the bill still effectively require the content maker’s permission to legally perform, just as much as commercial copying would.

  5. he’s either dumb or taking people for fools … either way it’s not good.
    then again, a dog fight is a dog fight … as always personal attacks to divret the attention …. it’s always about what the other did do wrong …

  6. yet another former conservative voter says:

    Moore and Harper are globalist neocon shills. Harper was photographed at the Bildergerg meeting several years ago when led the Alliance. They do not work for Canadians. The New World Order is here. Hide your wallet, and your laptop.

  7. “End users, the Chamber of Commerce will be speaking for you to me regardless of your repeatedly stated desires on this matter. Be quiet and let them write your dialogue from now on.”

  8. Give me a break
    Moore’s point is that business and consumers are tied, even when the consumers choose to steal from the business, they are still tied. His point is that if the ecosystem in Canada is not healthy for business, it’s not healthy for consumers either.

  9. Captain Hook says:

    @Michelle
    unhealthy business means unhealthy consumer. This is true.

    but

    healthy business DOES NOT MEAN healthy consumer.

    Examples of this are things such as monopolies or cartels. You and the Minister have made serious logical flaws in your reasoning. Smarten up!

  10. re: Give me a break
    Moore’s point is that business and consumers are tied, even when the consumers choose to steal from the business, they are still tied. His point is that if the ecosystem in Canada is not healthy for business, it’s not healthy for consumers either.

    …………

    interesting spin. would the reverse also be true? Moore’s point is that consumers and business are tied, even when the businesses choose to steal from the consumer, they are still tied. His point is that if the ecosystem in Canada is not healthy for consumers, it’s not healthy for business either.

    doesn’t quite work the same way does it, although it’s interesting just how true a portion of that remodeled statement is.

  11. Of course consumers and the economy are tied. Screwing the consumers too much will be bad for the economy. Create some artificial bubble of scarcity is going to be worse for it.

  12. Captain Hook says:

    artificial scarcity
    Bad for the economy, perhaps. But good good business. At least if you happen to be in the right business.

  13. only temporarily

  14. Moore screwing.
    “One of Moore’s first acts as the Minister of Canadian Heritage was to confirm a $45 million cut to the arts made prior to the 2008 election.” – Wikipedia.

    Thanks for keeping up the good work for the consumers’ best interests in Canada. Let me know when you grow a conscience.

  15. Propaganda
    This is just Propaganda to try and lure attention away from the bill. They don’t want to have to ammend it, so they’re tring to placate as many people as possible by pretending this has wide customer support.

    This is not good for ANY consumers, it’s not good a lot businesses, it’s NOT good for students or post secondary intitutions, it’s NOT good for libraries, how can Moore pretend this is a good thing?

    Are they planning to remove the levy on recordable media? At the very least, those recording artists who choose to use TPMs and ALL DVD/BD producers should not get a cut. Why? If it’s illegal for me to break a TMP to make a copy then why should I implicitly be paying taxes to those who impliment them.

    To me, it would seem that it should be illegal for them to get paid out of a fund built on the taxation of an illegal activity. This is classic money laundering, and in Canada this is illegal. By definition money laundering is “Any financial transaction which generates an asset or a value as the result of an illegal act”

    If passed as is and if the levy stays in place, in my opinion, only those who do not implement TMPs should be allowed to partake of this fund.

  16. He is a liar.

    6641 of 8306 Copyright Consultation submissions rejected the C-61-style digital lock provisions that were rehashed in C-32. The message from the public was clear, and it was ignored.

    Why? “We don’t care what you do, as long as the U.S. is satisfied.”

  17. Yeeeaaaagh
    Hypocritical LIAR! This is truly a dictatorship we live in.

  18. @Michelle
    If either business or consumer are screwed then the economy is screwed. C-32 screws the consumer.


  19. I love how Moore just pulls this crap out of his ass. What’s next, citing the Canadian Revenue Agency? CSIS? The American Government? The UN? The Motion Picture Association?

  20. Again with the Chamber of Commerce?
    Isn’t the Canadian Chamber of Commerce the would-be corporate regroupment that got caught up citing themselves in a “big, very reaserched report” on the same issues?

    I just hope Harper and his corpo buddies don’t make this into a “vote of confidence” again, because if they do, (deity) help us because the Liberals certainly won’t…

  21. Hindgrinder says:

    scarcity of honest politicians….
    I did a search on ebay and craigslist looking to purchase an honest politician but was unable to find a single one. No such luck finding an honest lobbyist either. *sigh*

    In the end…I ended up having to download a few open-source politicians still in development from – http://www.balancedcopyright.com

    HG

  22. OFF WITH HIS HEAD
    I think the title sums up how I feel about this.

  23. Might want to hire someone new to write your spin Mr Clement.

  24. Chamber of Commerce acts in the best interests of consumers.
    This may explain a lot actually.


  25. “Chamber of Commerce acts in the best interests of consumers.”

    Ya RIGHT!!! The Chamber of Commerce acts in the best interest of it’s members, which are businesses…not cunsumers. Businesses, especially “industry-related”, often have a hard time foreseeing the ramifications of unduely affecting consumers. Consumers these days are more fussy, with a vastly larger selection of services than our parents had available to them. Most, especially the younger generations (Say, those currently 25 and younger), will not bend over and be screwed by overly opressive laws. They will simply walk away and find other options or blatently pirate media without regard or respect for the law, like in the USA. The fact of the matter is, somebody, somewhere in the world will be offering something similar for free, or at least vastly cheaper with less restrictions.

  26. I am NOT a CONSUMER!
    We are all citizens! Please let’s don’t forget it.

    Consumers consume. Citizens…. vote.

  27. So now
    they are playing the game of lies

  28. @Steve
    “We are all citizens! Please let’s don’t forget it.
    Consumers consume. Citizens…. vote. ”

    I haven’t felt much like a citizen lately. It’s easy to forget when U.S. corps outvote Canadian citizens.

  29. Shareholders are Consumers
    Perhaps Mr. Moore mistook the CoC name for his most recent lobbyist.

  30. Missed the Obvious Connection
    Since the education community is against C-32 and everyone in Canada went to school or received some sort of education, then by Moore’s logic its obviously clear that every citizen of Canada is against this bill.

  31. From wikipedia

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamber_of_commerce

    From chamber.ca

    From chamber.ca
    As Canada’s largest and most influential business association, the Canadian Chamber of Commerce is the primary and vital connection between business and the federal government.

    I don’t see Consumer anywhere in there

  32. Steal is not in the Copyright Act
    > Moore’s point is that business and consumers are tied, even when the consumers choose to steal from the business, they are still tied. His point is that if the ecosystem in Canada is not healthy for business, it’s not healthy for consumers either.

    There is no such word “steal” in the Copyright Act. However, C32 is Moore’s gift of theft to businesses. Essentially, C32 says a business may use DRM to steal Canadians’ freedoms (freedoms we already have,) if it chooses. Sooner or later, collusions will start and all will use DRM.

    Nice try apologizing for Moore though.