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The Daily Digital Lock Dissenter, Day 3: Retail Council of Canada

The Retail Council of Canada represents more than 43,000 store fronts of all retail formats across Canada, including department, specialty, discount, and independent stores, and online merchants. It board of directors include representation from Canada’s largest retailers. The RCC’s comments on digital locks in Bill C-32:

We join the chorus of many manufacturers of consumer electronics and many artists themselves who believe that overly rigid technical protection measures are bad for artistic creativity, bad for innovation and last but not least, bad for retailers’ business and business in general. If Bill C-32 as now exists had been on the books in 1980, we would not have had the VCR, the personal computer and countless other products that we have depended upon. 

There should be no prohibition of devices or services that have substantial non-infringing uses. Consumers should be free to do whatever they want with their hardware and software, as long as that use is for private purposes and is otherwise non-infringing. That is all that is required by the treaties and that is as far as Canada should go.

Previous Daily Digital Locks: Provincial Resource Centre for the Visually Impaired (PRCVI) BC, Canadian Consumer Initiative

21 Comments

  1. Free Market for sale …
    One must wonder, if the treaties we have signed only require us to prohibit devices used for infringing purposes, why have we gone over and above those requirements?

    Who are we serving? (hint: look south)

    The government line that they are ‘preventing piracy’ and the stealing of creators works is just so much hogwash. The digital locks provision will have ZERO effect on piracy but a huge effect on law abiding citizens and businesses. The effect will be to remove their rights while entrenching incumbent industries even further who wish not to innovate because, well darn it, it will just cost them too much.

    So then … guess who it end up costing?

  2. Quick question
    How do I know which DVD player is a “genuine” one and which is a “TPM circumventing” device? I can play the same DVD in a multitude of DVD players, PC computers running Windows, Linux or whatnot and so on.

    So who says which are which? Maybe a Sony-Columbia DVD movie should be played in Sony players only and Samsungs should be banned from import?

    Who gets to “approve” this devices? The owner of the protected works? What is the process? Can lets say Sony ban all other non-Sony DVD players for viewing Columbia pictures movies? If they can ban Linux they can ban Samsung too, right?

  3. A Canadian minister….
    …claims via twitter that “piracy should be illegal in Canada and right now it’s not”.

    May I remember him that piracy is actually illegal and is covered both by the Criminal Code and the National Defence Act.

  4. RE: Napalm
    I suppose the same wise and completely neutral person/people who can approve that new laptops and desktop PCs can only run Windows 8.

    “It’s a beautiful day in the Corporatocracy…”

  5. What do they want to do with it….
    I remember from a movie “Peace Maker”, they didn’t fear a person who wanted several nukes. They feared the person who only wanted one.

    The US so badly wants a law that makes it illegal for you to use your purchases. (even playing your North American purchased DVD becomes illegal to play on a PC with say linux)

    What are they planning to do with it?

  6. @Crocket: Absolutely… and I sorely wish that the Conservatives would issue some sort of reasoned response to such a statement. The closest I ever saw on this issue was one time where a critic who had pointed out issues similarly to what you mentioned was treated to a rhetorical “how do we try to stop piracy then?” response from a bill supporter, and I suppose presuming that there could be no reasoned answer to that question, did not even give the critic any opportunity to respond to it. In general, however, most critics are not even given that much, but instead must endure a mindless reiteration of the bill’s “strengths” that does not even attempt to address the problems.

    @Napalm: since under this bill, devices and tools that circumvent TPM’s would be outlawed, then as long as you acquired the device or tool through legitimate channels, you could probably presume that it is not a banned device. Yes, companies could decide to be hostile to eachother, or create hardware that will only work on “approved” OS’s, but the conservatives appear to believe that if enough consumers do not want this, then companies will cave in to that pressure and not make devices that are so restrictive.

    @Michael: Its obvious. Gouge the consumer. Make him or her pay for each and every time they want to utilize their stuff, and make them pay for any additional flexibility they might want in how and when it does get used. Again, however, the conservatives seem to believe that if enough consumers are unhappy with this sort of arrangement, then companies will have to abide by consumer expectations if they want to compete.

  7. What is not illegal in Canada….
    …is something like this:

    “Whoever, with the purpose of inciting or supporting foreign enterprises aimed against the security of Switzerland, enters into contact with a foreign state or with foreign parties or other foreign organizations or their agents, or makes or disseminates untrue or tendentious claims, shall be punished with imprisonment of up to five years or a monetary penalty.”

    But TPM are more important to legislate, aren’t they. A national priority.


  8. @Mark: “Yes, companies could decide to be hostile to eachother, or create hardware that will only work on “approved” OS’s, but the conservatives appear to believe that if enough consumers do not want this, then companies will cave in to that pressure and not make devices that are so restrictive.”

    You can do even better. Something like having the surround sound tracks of Columbia movies playing only on Sony Playstastion. On Samsung you’ll get just stereo because they use a particular proprietary 5.1 track that is “DRM”ed. ROFL. Oh, and the uncut version and alternate ending are viewable on the playstation only too… An exclusive for our faithful customers…

  9. At MIPCOM in Cannes Miramax and Netflix said that piracy is not a problem. According to them monopolies such as walmart and iTunes are more detrimental than piracy. The cure? More competition and legal services out there.

  10. Conservatives are suffering majority deafness
    They won’t be able to hear anyone till the next election.


  11. The dream is that to content owners want to force you to repurchase the content you already own.

    The reality is that no one will listen and it may even push more people toward “piracy”. I have a HTPC that I use primarily for TV shows, but have not as of yet copied my 1400+ DVD collection to it, for lack of time and disk space (I estimate I require an additional 8TB+). That being said, I do intend to do it in the future…with or without this stupid bill in place. Why? Because I’ve already purchased the DVDs and have spent tens of thousands of dollars over the years. I’m still only using one copy at a time and I don’t think they have the right to ask me to spend more when I have it there already. Why should I spend many hours downloading stuff, burning up my very limited bandwidth, which is another issue, when I can copy the DVD to my computer in 20 minutes? It doesn’t make sense. The whole idea is not to sell, but to put the DVDs in storage to make room…you have any idea how much room 1400 DVDs take up? 😛

    I feel this is a justified way to use the content I’ve purchased and it will make me a criminal…and I say so be it.

  12. Annie Buddy says:

    Re: what’s legal, what’s not, and who decides…
    What’s an illegal streaming site? Grooveshark, for instance, is being sued and is being called illegal by one studio, but it is licensed by another (ie. Universal & BMG, or EMI I can’t remember which one was which.) Will there be a list of approved music stores?

    What’s the difference between the lock on a CD player, (yes, CD manufacturers must get a license from Philips to use the CD keys, and display that `Compact Disk` logo) and DVD? When studios lock CDs will Moore say `market dictates`, not the law`s fault?

    Similarly, how do I know if a program, such as VLC is breaking a lock when it decodes a DVD? Will there be some list of approved programs? Will Windows just delete bad programs, like they deleted Chrome?

    Whose lock-picking will get you sued, and whose locks are just too expensive to police? Whose locks will become part of the next standard electronics? Will art that is objectionable be disqualified from this lock protection?

    What about libraries? When everything is digital and locked, where are the provisions for libraries? Or will we just forget about libraries?

  13. Justin Frydman says:

    Illogical
    Why is it legal to erase a computer I paid for and own and put any operating system on it, yet hacking up my phone, which is also my property would not be? I own both pieces of hardware. I should be free to do what I want with them both, which includes placing any software on them that I choose or throwing them off a bridge. They are mine.

  14. Justin: It won’t be legal to do *ANYTHING* that can circumvent digital locks… given the free and largely uncontrolled nature of operating systems like Linux and the software that is available for it, it could well become illegal for people to utilize any such OS’s within their own homes. The only real thing under C-11 that can prevent such a turn of events is sufficient consumer pressure to keep hardware and software manufacturers from locking consumers into such a situation.

    And the worst part is that this law is coming… whether anyone likes it or not, because while the Conservatives have a majority, they don’t seem to be listening to anyone who disagrees with them…. if for no other reason than simply because they don’t have to. As Doug Webb so eloquently put it, above, they have “majority deafness” (that’s an excellent metaphor to describe the situation, by the way).

  15. Justin: It won’t be legal to do *ANYTHING* that can circumvent digital locks… given the free and largely uncontrolled nature of operating systems like Linux and the software that is available for it, it could well become illegal for people to utilize any such OS’s within their own homes. The only real thing under C-11 that can prevent such a turn of events is sufficient consumer pressure to keep hardware and software manufacturers from locking consumers into such a situation.

    And the worst part is that this law is coming… whether anyone likes it or not, because while the Conservatives have a majority, they don’t seem to be listening to anyone who disagrees with them…. if for no other reason than simply because they don’t have to. As Doug Webb so eloquently put it, above, they have “majority deafness” (that’s an excellent metaphor to describe the situation, by the way).

  16. Bye bye inkjet refils
    Now it will be official that you cannot reset those microchips on inkjet cartridges. Connecting an “unauthorized” reset key to them will be considered TPM circumvention.

    Until now they stated that the microchips contain software that is copyrighted and patented so a third party couldn’t replicate them. Thus you had to use a syringe to refill the cartridge and a “reset key” to reset the original chip.

    Now they can state that the chip contains TPM too and you cannot tamper with it in any way.

    Dear government, since we’re at it let’s find a way to ban syringes too.

  17. Obligated Updates
    Recently, copied into a with a firmware update for a game console from a large media company, a clause stating that, by installing the update, you forfeited the right to be part of any class-action lawsuit against them.
    The obvious choice is to refrain from performing the update, in this case, but given this bill, is it possible that refusal to update hardware to the most current form of firmware (presented as an update to DRM) provided constitutes a criminal act of negligence? Wouldn’t the above be example enough to demonstrate just how far this process will be abused by a major recipient of the C-11?
    Also, shouldn’t this type of lock, or system of checks, be based against some open standard which all DRM enthusiasts must adhere to? If we are basing laws limiting a citizen’s activities against this evolving technology, it would seem necessary to define the limits to which digital locks can be used, as well. An open standard, which would allow even small indie promoters access, seems like a more balanced approach to promoting competitive business in this market niche.

  18. Danux: It seems to me that the Conservatives are of the opinion that if enough people are actually dissatisfied with such arrangements, then consumer pressure will be sufficient to prevent companies from doing any of that in the long run. This is a nice theory, but you know what they say about the difference between theory and practice…

  19. Re: Danux
    You can come right out and say who the console manufacturer is. It’s Sony. And since then, EA decided they liked those terms and followed suit. I’m glad I made the decision to stop updating my PS3 firmware before the April 1st, 2010 update that killed Linux on PS3.

    On the topic of Sony, I got an email from them on July 14th, 2010, about new terms of service (which I did not and have no reason to agree to). Here’s a piece of that email:
    “If you do not agree with the new Terms of Service and User
    Agreement, please contact Customer Service to terminate your
    PlayStation(R)Network account(s) and do not visit
    PlayStation(R)Network or our websites. Continued use of your
    PlayStation(R)Network accounts by you or your associated Sub
    Accounts means that you agree to the new Terms of Service and
    User Agreement.”

    Really? If I visit your websites, I automatically agree to what ever those terms were/are? I have to visit your website just to see the terms. The URL to the terms even looks like a unique URL so they can track who viewed it (27 random characters in the query string).

    Sorry for being a bit off topic.

  20. Napalm, if memory serves the issue with computers playing DVDs has been related to the use use of CSS (content scrambling system). This used a key which the manufacturer of the player needed to pay for. On a PC (and I would presume a Mac) there is commercial software available where the key was licensed and as such it is legal to play the DVD on a PC using that software; however there is also players available based on a library called DeCSS. Playing a DVD using software based on DeCSS (and therefore not having paid the licensing fee) would be considered illegal.

    Mark, in your response to Justin you do raise some interesting points. I am a Linux user but I am still careful about what I install; not just for a legal reasons but also system security reasons. I prefer to build from source if possible. With respect to your comment about the majority government not listening to anyone who disagrees, I’ve yet to see a majority government that doesn’t do that to some extent.


  21. @Anon-K:

    So what’s the exact issue? Having to license a key? A number? How can I claim ownership on some random numbers, I’d like to do that so people will have to pay me a fee every time they use something like 1234.

    Is this a copyright issue? Is that number “copyrighted” and you cannot copy it?